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kobie459
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2021 07:52pm
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I'm considering buying an off-grid cabin in Western MA, however the "foundation" needs a lot of work. I believe the cabin was originally built in the late 60s early 70s and has been used seasonally by the same family since then. Any advice as to how to go about fixing the foundation in a relatively low cost fashion would be greatly appreciated. Feel free to be as brutally honest as you would like - if you think the project would be exorbitantly expensive and or time consuming please let me know. This cabin would continue to be seasonal but I do of course want it to be safe.
See photos attached.
As far as I can tell the cabin is sitting on at least 3 different types of material - wood posts, metal posts, and cement blocks. There do not seem to be any concrete pads underneath any of this. As I mentioned, the cabin has been standing for at least 50 years and the previous owners have clearly done some work on the foundation over the years, replacing some of the posts with newer cement blocks, however this seems to be a temporary fix. Having said that, I am ok with a "temporary fix" as long as the building is safe to inhabit. The cabin has been standing on its current foundation for many decades so clearly something is working despite it's rudimentary nature. I'm not looking to over engineer, and ideally would like to do as much of the work myself with the help of a friend who has a good amount of experience with building small structures.
The cabin is accessible by a road so getting supplies in should not be an issue. I'm not sure of the exact dimensions, but it's probably 30' x 30' with about 2 feet of space underneath the cabin.
Any help / advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance and feel free to ask any questions.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2021 08:01pm
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How much below value are you going to pay and how much are you thinking about spending on fixing the foundation?
From the pics shown theres more issues than the foundation. With only 2ft of working room and needing to dig down at least 4ft it's not looking good. Can you tell us about beam size and spacing?
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ICC
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2021 09:31pm
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Posts that are already rotated out of plumb are not a good sign.
Two feet of clearance under a building is hard enough to negotiate even without thinking of actually doing any work under there.
Can your "friend who has a good amount of experience with building small structures" have a look at it. I assume he knows more than you about this sort of thing. But I could be wrong; depends on what you mean by small structures. A habitable cabin is not quite the same as a storage shed.
From those 4 pictures, it does not appear to be ready to fall over, but pictures can not always convey the reality. But the amount of work necessary and the degree of difficulty may not be worth it in the end.
When I was working with my brothers we turned down remedial work like that reasonably often.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2021 09:58pm
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'Fix' and 'relatively low cost fashion' will not mean quick, easy or inexpensive.
This structure upon the land is a liability, not an asset. Dont pay more than what the land is worth.
If that includes grid power, approved septic and well those would up an offer. And is this structure even allowed?
I look at the pics and start thinking of ways I could go about this and have to stop.... This will most likely require permits and approvals at the township level to even make a plan to get an idea of costs.
The problem I ran into was that without me being the owner I couldnt get any of that ahead of time for negotiations so I had to wing it. I took the chance that my rough off grid/dry cabin would be 'grandfathered in' because it has been on the tax rolls. So far, so good....
What happens with you could be totally different.
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kobie459
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2021 10:45pm
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The purchase price would basically just be the price of the land. At this point I'm really just trying to figure out if it's worth paying a bit extra for a cabin that needs a lot of work or if buying raw land and starting from scratch would be best.
My friend that would be helping out has experience buildings sheds and tiny house like structures on trailers but does not have experience fixing the foundation of a building that is already standing. I know that extra help would be necessary but like I said, at this point, am really just trying to figure out if it's a cabin worth "saving" or if building something new is best.
The cabin is located is a small hill town on an unmaintained road where people pretty much get away with doing what they want without permits and approval as long as they keep things small and aren't a nuisance. In short this project would be off the books, but the town does know that the cabin currently sits on the land.
I haven't been to the property since the fall but will be returning next weekend to take a look at it again. At that point I can take more detailed photos and get a good look at what's going on underneath.
I understand that for a proper foundation, digging down below the frost line and pouring piers would be best. But undertaking such a project on this cabin wouldn't seem worth it in terms of cost.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 16 Apr 2021 06:18am
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Some times starting with nothing is alot easier. Repairing a foundation is always easier when the house isnt on it. I have repaired a 40ft section of my houses foundation..its no fun. It's far easier to do correctly the first time.
Other issues I see are the chimney black pipe outside of the cabin and the cobbled up live edge siding below the window. Both things that tell me pride in the final product was not a thing for who ever built this cabin.
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rpe
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# Posted: 16 Apr 2021 09:00am
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How many support beams and associated piers are supporting the building now? The perimeter piers could be addressed with a reasonable amount of effort, but those underneath in a 2-ft clearance would be a serious challenge. Cutting open the floor and working from inside the structure may be required. Make sure things are properly shored up before venturing underneath. You don't want to end up like that wicked witch of the west (or was it east...).
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 16 Apr 2021 09:15am
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It isnt just the foundation, even though that is where it starts, it will then be what sits on it, the deck.
Adequate sized beams and joists?
What condition are they in?
What is the deck and how many layers?
What is the studding?
Are they proper on the load bearing walls?
Any headers over windows and door(s)?
Roof condition (a bad roof will kill the rest of the structure). Stand back and look at it; any sway back or bellies where it is sagging in? Rafters would be suspect.
In short, you inspection and considerations need to be like you were 'building it' and where it comes up short.
My impression is that you will find nothing that is more than just adequate and a lot that is less than.
For us, we loved the land; we would have pursued it just for that. As is, our shack, that does have shortcomings, is not so terrible that I would have to spend untold amounts of money and the next 5 years? rebuilding. As is, ours is a plus that is safe and usable that only cost us a smidge more.
So, if you dont love the land, the whole setting including good neighbors, dont buy a bad cabin too.
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spencerin
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# Posted: 17 Apr 2021 10:53am - Edited by: spencerin
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Don't let all this scare you off. If you love the place, it's a good price for you, and you're handy, give it serious consideration. Looks to me like you can just fix up the block foundation. Jack the cabin up by each pier just enough to allow you to disassemble and reassemble the pier, but with better blocks, gravel base, and drainage. Maybe you have to add some piers, too, maybe not. It looks to me like you have enough room the wiggle around under there to get it done. Is it the best or "right" way to do it? No. But, if done right, it's your low-cost "temporary" fix that will last a long time.
Based on what you wrote about your locality, this place and thus it's foundation are probably grandfathered in.
I look at the place and it's a nice-looking rustic cabin, without having seen the inside. If you're heart's in it, and your pocketbook can support it, don't let this deter you. If you're paying for just the land essentially and the cabin seems otherwise respectable, it's a steal for you.
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Aklogcabin
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# Posted: 18 Apr 2021 09:00am
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I agree with spencerin. It doesn't look like its all that bad. One fix at a time. And you can start enjoying some cabin time all that much sooner.
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kobie459
Member
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# Posted: 18 Apr 2021 07:56pm
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Thanks for all the replies! I'll be heading back out there this coming weekend and will see how the cabin and foundation faired over the winter. Will take more pics and update.
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Royalwapiti
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# Posted: 20 Jul 2021 10:33pm
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If you haven't started yet. Looks like there are only perimeter piers, didn't see any in your pics that were set inside under the floor mid span. Those would be easy by over digging new holes and being accessible from along side the cabin.
Watch this dude's video. One by one he removed old piers and adds new. You could maybe just add new next to old.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMVsJcCO2fM&t=5s
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