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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2021 02:02pm
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Stairs are a must for our upcoming cabin build to get to the lofts between our 2 dogs and my wife Meniere's disease (vertigo is a common thing for her). Spiral staircases seem like the most space saving option, but the kits are quite pricey at $1500-$2000 for a 5' diameter.
Has anyone here constructed their own?
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scott100
Member
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2021 03:12pm
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Here's a pretty neat spiral ladder idea. Not sure if we're going to do this or just build a ladder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZmye2IxlTM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7wCdiMwjFk
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2021 03:17pm
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Have you used spiral stairs much at all? I used to think they were just the ticket for small spaces. I changed my mind after using a spiral at a friend's a few times. They are no as natural a staircase when it comes to using a lot. Not for me anyhow. Perhaps one would get used to them but the constant turning was something I was uncomfortable with.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2021 03:48pm
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Quoting: ICC the constant turning was something I was uncomfortable with.
How did i not think through the fact that the constant turning as you go up, or worse, come down, could actual cause a vertigo episode for my wife.
Might have to find one for her to test or figure something else out.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2021 03:56pm
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I went around and around about it myself at my old cabin.....
The spirals Ive experienced took up a huge footprint, about as much as a good sized wood stove considering clearances. The one at my wife's mother's ended up being mostly a plant stand.
A steep stairs, something akin to halfway between ladder and stairs, with very solid handrails works well as long as one has good knees.
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Nobadays
Member
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2021 04:23pm
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We had one, about 4'-5' diameter in a home one time.... looked cool, took up little space but it didn't take long to really dislike it. The constant turning is just not natural.
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Champ7ac
Member
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2021 04:41pm
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Here is a video of a guy in Alaska that had a spiral staircase that appeared to be homemade. (nice job)
He took that one down and installed a ship ladder, so it didn't take up as much space.
Maybe this might help?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca2q2Gp6JHA
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zorro
Member
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2021 05:01pm
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Have you thought about a pull down/attic type ladder
We originally thought about a spiral as it would look great
However, the footprint was too large for our liking
So we went for the pull down option and it has been great - when nobody is using or needing the loft, we simply push it up out of the way and leave all the space below
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snobdds
Member
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2021 05:02pm
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Having a gable roof helps a lot in the making of a usable staircase. I can use the pitch of the roof as a benefit to make a turn and follow the roof line up. My dad is getting old so I made a nice ergonomic staircase that is easy to get up and down. Makes the loft so much more accessible and it doesn't take up much room.
With shed roofs, stairs to lofts are usually ladders.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 9 Feb 2021 05:33am
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Another thing is are you sure your dogs will go up and down spiral stairs? There usualy prety open and some dogs dont like that.
In our initial design we had a 12/13 pitch gabel roof with stairs right in the middle. Man was that dumb, the tallest head room was taken up by the stairs. Futher headroom checks on a gabel roof chose us to go with a gambrel roof. We also moved the stairs to the side and added a landing. Stairs would go up the outside wall then turn and go up towards the middle of the building.
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Irrigation Guy
Member
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# Posted: 9 Feb 2021 07:35am
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Quoting: ICC Have you used spiral stairs much at all? I used to think they were just the ticket for small spaces. I changed my mind after using a spiral at a friend's a few times. They are no as natural a staircase when it comes to using a lot. Not for me anyhow. Perhaps one would get used to them but the constant turning was something I was uncomfortable with.
You wouldn’t like climbing the Statue of Liberty. We did that a couple years ago with the kids. It has a double helix stair case that is probably at a 70 degree angle.
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Nate R
Member
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# Posted: 9 Feb 2021 08:20am
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This is part of why I backed away from a loft and went bigger on the 1st floor....the stairway taking up so much room (and the fact that lofts ALWAYS are warm, but that might be a positive in your case).
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 9 Feb 2021 08:28am
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Ladders are definitely out for both my wife and our dogs. The dogs will loose their bananas if they can't be by us or our son.
The gambrel roof was my second option and the more i start laying things out the more like i feel we are headed that direction. So maybe a regular stairs will work.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 9 Feb 2021 10:21am
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+1 on no loft intended to be people space. Btdt.
Ok for storage, stairs and headroom becomes a none-issues.
Early on the stacked heat in summer became a BIG thing. In the winter the warmer loft initially seems good, but getting up to go down and feed the fire in the night was...troublesome. And dangerous in half a sleep stupor, which I realized one night going down.
When I tore out my ACL (knee ligament) in the late '80's I was not able to go up for a couple years; ie, we are all only one injury away from a disability (and they can happen quick!).
It didnt take me too many years to wish I had gone for a bigger footprint. A big, one room open space with movable partition 'walls' would have made making some private space in differing floorplans easy.
Our current 16x24 is pretty much that, minus the partitions, and we really like it. I might even make a storage loft, that could help keep some seasonal stuff out of the way from plugging up space.
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snobdds
Member
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# Posted: 9 Feb 2021 10:30am - Edited by: snobdds
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If you don't like lofts, you're doing it wrong. It's only been in the past couple of years lofts have been demonized, before that people here realized the value. I know why the shift, but that is for another day.
Design it to be functional and have a real staircase. If you insulate it correctly and have windows, there is no difference between a loft and an upstairs living area in a house.
It's cheaper to build up, not spread out.
I love my loft and it's functional, by design.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 9 Feb 2021 11:20am
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We plan on a "loft"..but is it even considered a loft any more if you have full stairs and 8' ceilings under the center of a gambrell roof? I'm not sure but I plan on walking off the loft wall that open to the living room and possibly putting a door at the top of the stairs. At least then I can control the level of "hot as hell" in the loft.
I have slept in lofts and I have slept in the lower floor of lofts with people sleeping in the loft, Heated by a wood stove. The people on the ground floor are frozen and or feeding the fire and the people in the loft are having the window open all night or it's hot as hell. Even with a large ceiling fan going full time theres just a huge temp difference. Hot air always rises and cold air always sinks.
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skootamattaschmidty
Member
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# Posted: 9 Feb 2021 11:37am
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We actually have a spiral staircase that goes to our loft. I did not build it but my uncle did when he built the cottage. It is out of the way and takes up a small footprint and is easy enough to navigate. Our place is a log cabin so his center piece is a log and then the treads are 2" thick rough pine planks that have smoothed out nicely over the years. Now he was able to build it into a corner so utilized the corners for supports on the end opposite the center post. I do not have any pics but am heading up for a winter trip next week and can take some if you are interested...
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skootamattaschmidty
Member
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# Posted: 9 Feb 2021 11:39am
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It was a very cheap build for him as the log was from a tree he cut. The planks he got at a mill for a good price. It is incredibly solid. The best part is he found a branch with the perfect curve to use as a railing so its easy to hold onto...
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dsmith14469
Member
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# Posted: 9 Feb 2021 12:04pm
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I saw these once but no longer have the link. The stairs fold down to use and fold up when done.
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Irrigation Guy
Member
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# Posted: 9 Feb 2021 01:28pm
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Quoting: Brettny I have slept in lofts and I have slept in the lower floor of lofts with people sleeping in the loft, Heated by a wood stove. The people on the ground floor are frozen and or feeding the fire and the people in the loft are having the window open all night or it's hot as hell. Even with a large ceiling fan going full time theres just a huge temp difference. Hot air always rises and cold air always sinks.
We were having the same issue so I stapled a canvas painters tarp across the opening to the loft and it has helped a lot. My son slept upstairs last night and said it was comfortable. Last time he was here they were sweating. I plan to cut it to fit and make some hooks to hang it easily.
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snobdds
Member
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# Posted: 9 Feb 2021 01:35pm
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Quoting: Brettny We plan on a "loft"..but is it even considered a loft any more if you have full stairs and 8' ceilings under the center of a gambrell roof? I'm not sure but I plan on walking off the loft wall that open to the living room and possibly putting a door at the top of the stairs. At least then I can control the level of "hot as hell" in the loft. I have slept in lofts and I have slept in the lower floor of lofts with people sleeping in the loft, Heated by a wood stove. The people on the ground floor are frozen and or feeding the fire and the people in the loft are having the window open all night or it's hot as hell. Even with a large ceiling fan going full time theres just a huge temp difference. Hot air always rises and cold air always sinks.
The place was not insulated correctly, it sounds like. Very few actually will spend the money to do it right, let alone have the knowledge to do it right. More than not, DIY cabins are not insulated correctly. The temp should not have wide swings in temperature throughout the day. It should stay in a 5* range regardless of outside temp swings.
The thing with wood stoves is, they are radiant heat, not convection heat. However their is convection on thermal transfer and air needs to circulate. Vents should be on the floor of the loft to allow cold air to return to the first floor to replace the hot air rising from the stove.
This is the exact same principle in regular houses with cold air returns.
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NorthRick
Member
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# Posted: 9 Feb 2021 03:48pm
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Quoting: skootamattaschmidty We actually have a spiral staircase that goes to our loft. I did not build it but my uncle did when he built the cottage. It is out of the way and takes up a small footprint and is easy enough to navigate. Our place is a log cabin so his center piece is a log and then the treads are 2" thick rough pine planks that have smoothed out nicely over the years. Now he was able to build it into a corner so utilized the corners for supports on the end opposite the center post. I do not have any pics but am heading up for a winter trip next week and can take some if you are interested...
I'm interested. I'm in the middle of a cabin build that has a loft and am planning to put in a spiral staircase.
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NorthRick
Member
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# Posted: 9 Feb 2021 04:29pm
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Quoting: snobdds However their is convection on thermal transfer and air needs to circulate. Vents should be on the floor of the loft to allow cold air to return to the first floor to replace the hot air rising from the stove.
I know of two cabins with 1/2 lofts that have the staircase going up the back wall to the loft. Both have wood stoves on the front wall where there is no loft. The hot air off the stove rises and at the back of the loft it cools and descends down the stairway. Moves across the room back to the stove where it is heated again.
This works remarkably well at keeping the cabin more evenly heated.
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jsahara24
Member
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# Posted: 9 Feb 2021 04:34pm - Edited by: jsahara24
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posted on the wrong thread...
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 9 Feb 2021 05:09pm
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NR, that was pretty much how my 1st build was, thought it should work, the 'cooler' air should cycle back down on the cold end of the loft. Maybe it did? But, the loft was quite often 10*f warmer in wood stove season.
No power, no fans, just the normal air flow. At some points it was comfortably warm, others it exceeded comfort, like when we had the downstairs to t-shirt temps, 76*+. Go to bed up there with no covers or a sheet but keep the covers ready for when the stove burned low. I learned to sleep with one bare arm out from under, when it got cold enough to want to pull it in it was time to go down and feed the fire.
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NorthRick
Member
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# Posted: 9 Feb 2021 05:48pm
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Quoting: gcrank1 Go to bed up there with no covers or a sheet but keep the covers ready for when the stove burned low. I learned to sleep with one bare arm out from under, when it got cold enough to want to pull it in it was time to go down and feed the fire.
I guess I should say that both these cabins have Blaze King stoves. Once you get them going they will keep a fairly even temperature all night without having to put more wood in. Run 'em low or hot, whatever is your comfort zone.
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Peewee86
Member
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# Posted: 10 Feb 2021 12:24am
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The larger diameter spiral staircases are much easier to go up and down without the unnatural feeling described by Nobadays above. Staircase kits start at about 42†in diameter. In my opinion that’s much too small. If you are having your building inspected 60†diameter is minimum code. Or at least it was for my area. I don’t think our 60†staircase feels bad at all. It’s much more comfortable to use than the 48 inch spiral staircase that is in my friends guest house. Of course in a small cabin that extra 12 inches of diameter eats up a lot of space.
This is the staircase I purchased and put in my place last summer. Home Depot has “Special Buy†sales on it from time to time. I got it at 20% off.
URL
There’s a picture of it in my build thread.
URL
As far as building a spiral staircase without a kit I think it would take someone with much more time and talent than I have. As it was with the kit, I’m sure I had 14-16 hours in to assembly and installation.
-PeeWee
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 10 Feb 2021 06:16am
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Quoting: snobdds The place was not insulated correctly, it sounds like. Very few actually will spend the money to do it right, let alone have the knowledge to do it right. More than not, DIY cabins are not insulated correctly. The temp should not have wide swings in temperature throughout the day. It should stay in a 5* range regardless of outside temp swings.
The place was an actual home with half loft and rehabbed about 15yrs prior to me being there. It was owned and rehabbed by a contractor but I wasn't there for the build so who knows. But I can tell you it was not a weekend handily man style cabin.
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snobdds
Member
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# Posted: 10 Feb 2021 11:06am
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Quoting: Brettny The place was an actual home with half loft and rehabbed about 15yrs prior to me being there. It was owned and rehabbed by a contractor but I wasn't there for the build so who knows. But I can tell you it was not a weekend handily man style cabin.
It reminds me of the old saying...mechanics have the worst running cars.
I have a father that is a contractor. Trust me, sometimes knowing the tricks to get things done quick is not a good thing.
That is why we did not build our cabin until he was 63. He said that only then could he devote the needed time and attention to showcasing years of experience.
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Aklogcabin
Member
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# Posted: 10 Feb 2021 11:45am
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There's give n take in most things. Spiral stairs go round and can be narrow. But take up less space. How often it is used could come into play.
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