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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2020 03:08pm
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While I wait to hear from our local building inspector on the ins and outs permits wise for different levels of cabin builds, the more i think about the simplicity of the roadside cabins/sheds/shabins you see for sale.
I can imagine the pro's to starting with something like this for a first cabin, but i'm interested in what could be the shortcomings of something like this.
Keep in mind that I'm in northern Wisconsin.
Most i've seen don't have vapor barriers and are 2x4 framed. Would this pose problems for my climate when i go to insulate?
If i don't have level ground and i put a series of pre cast pads or poured columns if need be, is that sufficient or do these require all of the skids to be in contact with the ground?
Those are just some ideas/concerns that come to mind. Feel free to share other pros/cons, etc.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2020 03:52pm
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Prep the ground, put down a vap. barrier and all I did was put silo block down as a 'floating foundation' pad on a sand and gravel hilltop in the woods. That was for a heavy self-built 12x24 with a 12x12 loft. A pre-built shed, no prob, imo.
Get a big enough one to use as a toolshed/workshop, storage, powerhouse, etc for when you decide to 'build a proper cabin'.
I looked at the local offerings here in sc Wi just last summer to use as the toolshed/powerhouse and was pretty much not impressed. Some are better than others....and you can inspect the build from the inside, but the workmanship can be shoddy. We have some Amish around here who will build to your spec and even on site. Keep in mind that the prebuilts can only be made just so wide to be hauled down the road and some property is hard to 'pull stuff into'.
Another option might be a garage kit from Menards? the garage door opening can be made as per kit and a bolt in partition wall made with a service door and window(s) to be more cabin'ish.
Wise words I once heard were,"nobody ever builds a garage or pole building big enough"; I think that might apply to cabins too.
Good shopping!
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Irrigation Guy
Member
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2020 04:25pm
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I bought a prefab shell that was sold as a shed or garage but it was not the type you see on the roadside. I special ordered it to my liking with house doors, insulated floor, 2x6 walls, etc. if I had to do it again I would do a few things different but I would still get the prefab. It allowed me to be weather tight day one and it got me around some of the towns permitting rules
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darz5150
Member
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2020 04:56pm
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This is 12 x 24 with a loft on each end.
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Nate R
Member
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2020 07:14pm
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We have a prebuilt 10x16 shed with loft, the kind you see on the side of the road. When we had our red pines thinned, we used the proceeds to pay for the shed.
You will be told that you CAN use something like that IF it meets code. It will not, of course, as they are built for the most part. I doubt the 2x4 rafters would be OK, but more importantly, probably will need egress sized windows or a 2nd exit, and proper anchoring of the thing to the ground. But I got the impression there IS a way to get the local inspector to approve those.
Upsides: Instant building, not a ton of work on your part, and customizeable a fair amount, actually.
Downsides (at least based on our shed, or one's we saw Substandard lumber specs for lofts or rafters. Single pane windows. No flashing or real water management, so we're getting water staining coming in around the door trim on the floor. Not 100% bug tight or rodent tight.
Vapor barrier: Don't worry about that fact right now. Can be added. Insulating walls and roof is doable, but I think the floor would be a tougher ordeal.
Skids: I think you'd have a tough time putting one of these on columns. Basically a small vehicle needs to be able to slide the shed into place somewhere.
Based on my experience with having a shed, if you were to get one to stay in, I would think this type of structure would work for 5-15 years, but I wouldn't want to count on it to last the rest of your life, or be worth/easy to maintain beyond a certain point.
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rockies
Member
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2020 07:42pm - Edited by: rockies
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Problems with pre-built cabins:
Picking an arbitrary building size based on standard construction material sizes (ie a sheet of plywood) and creating a box that measures 12 x 16 or 16 x 20 or 20 x 24 and then trying to cram everything you want into that box.
Start by designing the kitchen first using your kitchen at home as a guide (do you want more counter next to the stove, where would you like the sink in relation to the stove and fridge, etc) then design the bathroom the same way (if there is one), then the bedroom, dining space and living room.
Lay out the actual size of the furniture, wood stove and appliances and the needed clearances around them and once you have all that you have the size of your cabin.
If your final size winds up being 18'9" x 27'3" THEN bump it up to the next standard size of construction materials (ie 20 x 28').
Start from the smallest interior dimension needed and then work your way out. It will save you trying to cram in the woodstove at the end and finding out your clearances to combustibles don't work.
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mj1angier
Member
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2020 07:57pm - Edited by: mj1angier
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Ours is a pre-built "shed". But company would let you order what you wanted- including built to home code. It added some $ but for us it was time vs. money vs. labor. https://www.pineviewbuildings.com/products/series/dutchlap
In NC, 2x4 walls are fine, not that cold here. Ours is on blocks and strapped down to ground. It was pre-wired with 4 outlets, I added 2 more myself. I did insulation other than floor, had them spray it when built. One good thing about ours, it was never wet inside- They build them in warehouse. Ours is 12x20.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 16 Dec 2020 07:45am
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We did something like your asking about Will. We knew we wanted to build a decent sized cabin but also wanted a structure to get us out of the elements and it needed to be on the property quick. We had a baby on the way. We knew we would eventually want a shed on the property so that what we bought. We had delivered a rough cut 10x14ft shed. The only insulation that's in it is 2in foam in the ceiling. Foundation is blocks on grade, no further prep. We have been in it @32* at night with a 8 month old baby. The small wood stove kept us all warm and happy.
In a few years when we build our 20x32 cabin we will either turn that shed into a shed of keep it as a guest bunk house.
Personally I wouldnt buy one of these road side sheds made from OSB and 24in OC 2x4 walls and 2x4 rafters. There really built as bottom of the barrel buildings. Ours is 10x14 with PT floor, joists and four 6x6 runners. It was $3200 delivered and real wood.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 16 Dec 2020 09:13am
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So in the end it sounds like these sheds/shabins are less of an economical solution but more of a time solution. I have all the time in the world minus working full time, husband and father of a teenager would have! But seriously, i've already planned to make time to build next year and even carrying over vacation from this year to do so.
Most importantly, I want to build not buy. I'm primarily asking the shortcomings of this construction format in the event that i'm told by the building inspector that it'll be the easier route permit wise. And like i said at the beginning, it appears to be the cheaper/cheapest way to a cabin.
Maybe I just need to be up front with the inspector and say, I want to do this legally so what is the simplest and cheapest way permit wise to build a cabin of XXsq. ft.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 16 Dec 2020 10:13am
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Something not mentioned is that some of the materials used in the pre-builts are a manufactured product with smells and possible voc's you may not like or be able to get rid of.
I would think you should be able to easily show an inspector that you can build a better structure with better materials than the pre-builts.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 16 Dec 2020 10:51am
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Do you want the simplest or the cheapest? Usualy you cant have both. Simplest, make a call and have them drop a building off. Cheapest is prob to find a local sawmill that sells rough cut lumber and build your own.
Another temp solution to use durring a cabin build is buying a camper and selling it when your done.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 16 Dec 2020 11:19am
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So we have a 5th wheel already as i've shared in my project post. My plan is to keep it until the cabin is habitable, but the second it is, i want it gone...for 3 reasons. One, it cost me $250 a month. Two, were lucky if we used it more than 5 times a year before we bought this land. Lastly, i'm not a camper guy...my wife is since she prefers the luxuries of home.
Do I want the cheapest...no..but i also don't have a 5 figure budget. We spent most of our long saved liquid assets plus some on remodeling the 1st floor of our home...and i still have the 2nd floor to do. So all i'll have to put towards a cabin is some items i plan to sell over the next few months which should get me to around $7k. I know, i know, wait and save more money....well that idea is what has prevented me from having a cabin till this point. It always gets pushed off, other things pop up that wipe what you've saved, etc. etc. Plus, when your wife doesn't see much purpose or need for the land let alone a cabin, it makes things harder. But this is something I need.
Simpliest you ask...simple would do for me, but not for my wife. Even though she has little interest in being up there, i need to make it habitable for her otherwise i'm dancing on that line of "your making it rustic just so i won't go up there"! Happy wife, happy life right?!
So yeah, that's the predicament that i'm in.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 16 Dec 2020 11:34am
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Park the camper there and save the money that would have been wasted on a shed/temp cabin on the real thing.
Why own a camper if your not going to enjoy nature with it? You own a camper and a piece of land..I would join them together. That may also be s good way to get the wife to enjoy the land she also owns more.
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Nate R
Member
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# Posted: 16 Dec 2020 01:12pm
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Quoting: WILL1E Maybe I just need to be up front with the inspector and say, I want to do this legally so what is the simplest and cheapest way permit wise to build a cabin of XXsq. ft.
Given my experience, I think this will be the best and fastest way to get a straight answer from the inspector on what you can and can't do, and what the requirements are.
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pabear89
Member
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# Posted: 16 Dec 2020 02:13pm
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From one who is outside looking in reading your posts.
You have a place that the wife will use on the land you want her to be on. Then use it! This will give you the time and cost savings to do it right so she will be more responsive to stay.
Best info I have seen is ask up front what the rules are, This will guide you on what you will need to move forward in your build plans.
It is a win win as in the wife will have her comforts and the inspector will allow your use of the land.
I have been working my 30 acres for 7 yrs now and have had my own set backs so i know where your coming from, Checking the depth of the water before diving in is just as important as checking the water temp before swimming.
Thinking it thru will save more money for the things that really matter in the long run for you to enjoy the property and avoid paying for a divorce lawyer. ;)
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Irrigation Guy
Member
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# Posted: 16 Dec 2020 03:26pm
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I would agree, talk to inspector to find out the straight deal. I did this and was pleasantly surprised that the town allows for “off grid†seasonal camps and cabins that don’t have to meet building code. I had my 14x36 shell delivered, he came out said looks good and closed my permit. I asked if he needed to come back to inspect as I finished out the interior he said almost a wink and a nod, “no, we are happy to have you spending money hereâ€. He knew there was an electric service and well on the property already he just didn’t care. After he left and dust settled I wired it and installed a bathroom. I may have exceeded the permit but if I ever sell it it would have to be cash sale anyway so not too worried about it.
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spencerin
Member
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# Posted: 18 Dec 2020 01:09am - Edited by: spencerin
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Agree with all of the above -
Put the camper of the land and use it while you save $ and plan your cabin build. While you plan it, ask the building inspector what you can and can't do. Are you sure you have any requirements/restrictions where you are? There are still jurisdictions that don't care if you build to code or not, or about what you place on your land.
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scott100
Member
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# Posted: 22 Dec 2020 10:22pm - Edited by: scott100
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Not the cheapest way to do a cabin, but worked for us in rural NY state, was a cabin on wheels built by Lancaster Log cabins. Built to our specs (I did the drawings tweaking one of their models), it's certified as a park model rv. No permits needed. I verified this with our building inspector before we put it in. No permits means no bump in our property's assessment either. So it's a tiny home. 14 x 26' with a loft and a 14 x 10 porch. I did all the interior work to save some money.
We wanted something that I didn't have to build, and drove all over NY and Pa looking at pre-made structures and sheds. In the end, the log cabins got our attention. Kind of a freak accident we found that builder on one of our trips.
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2020 08:47am - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Quoting: Brettny Personally I wouldnt buy one of these road side sheds made from OSB and 24in OC 2x4 walls and 2x4 rafters. There really built as bottom of the barrel buildings. Ours is 10x14 with PT floor, joists and four 6x6 runners. It was $3200 delivered and real wood.
Bingo, I cant stand OSB, makes it smell like a glue factory on the inside while a plywood unit smells like a lumber mill or fine cabinet shop and the savings from 24" OC vs 16" OC is under $25 on a small shed if even that.
I have a saying at my property, OSB isnt even allowed on the place, period. I have made it illegal on my property. Press board for a countertop is allowed, but that is in.
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mj1angier
Member
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2020 10:03am - Edited by: mj1angier
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Again, you can get them built as nice as you want to spend $$ on.
Time, money, effort. You can save 2 but not all 3.
For me, I can make more per hour at work than I can save building some things. I have the know how to build from ground up, but I am older and would have to get extra help. Having the shed shell in place let me work on the stuff that was not time sensitive- the wood on this building never sat wet waiting on me to be able to work on it. No wet- no mold.
Size is 12x24
And it's built with 16'OC walls and rafters, 2x6 12" OC trusses, PT runners and 3/4" floor, 2 9 lite insulated doors, spray foam insulated floor, metal roof... all for $7500 delivered and set up
With me doing interior fit up ( including adding 4 insulated window), having 2 porches built on it, adding solar with lithium battery.. I think I am at around $16-17,000. Building was purchased on 5/16/2019, delivered on 6/03/2019, me working on it 2 full weeks and every-other weekend in summer...
We had Thanksgiving there last year and only did not have porches on.
So yeah it worked for us ( we have 2 other folks with like kind of "cabins" there)
But to each his own
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2020 11:10am
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Finally got ahold of the building inspector. Sounds pretty laid back. I don't have any minimum sq. ft. requirements. I am allowed to build dry cabin. I can do 2x4 or 2x6 walls. Post and pier is perfectly acceptable as long as i go down 48"....blocks on the surface might be an option but she hesitated a bit on that subject. Said i can do my own wiring as long i have the supervision of a certified electrician...basically one that's willing to sign off on it.
Sounds like my permit will be $350 and she will inspect twice, roughed in and at finish.
Time to hit the drawing board!
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Nate R
Member
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2020 12:38pm
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Quoting: WILL1E Finally got ahold of the building inspector.... Time to hit the drawing board!
Awesome!
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