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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 8 Sep 2020 08:34am
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Just bought 6 acres in NE Wisconsin and we would like to have power run into the property.
The local power company will run power up to the meter located either on a structure or a freestanding pedestal.
They will run up to 250' until another transformer would have to be installed. The cost for this is $8.50 per foot. If you don't need a transformer and it's service power only (so 250' or less) it's $6.50 per foot and the first ~125ft is free.
In my photo below, the red box shows where we plan to setup our camper for now, tiny cabin later. The yellow line shows the driveway we plan to clear to the spot. The green boxes show current transformers on or near my property. Going from one of the two transformers in the top right, our spot would be ~400ft from either one. The ~250ft mark would be where the yellow line goes from horizontal to bending towards the bottom left.
So what would be the most economical way to get power to the spot we've chosen? Have them run 250' in ($812 after 125' free) to a pedestal and then i run my own line from the pedestal to a sub-panel located by our spot? Or do i have them run 275' in and drop a transformer and then run another 125' to my pedestal. Only cost for this option would be for the 275' to transformer which would be $2338
Looking for ideas/ways to keep the cost down.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 8 Sep 2020 09:05am
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How much power do you require at the cabin site, in terms of how many amps total draw? Any codes in effect? The national electric code (NEC) demands a minimum of a 100 amp service. If codes are not enforced for some reason planning on less power may be a bad idea if your elecrical needs or wants grow. Houses used to get along fine with 60 amp service but ....
When the power company runs a line 250 feet, is it correct to assume that will be a 240 volt service? Or?
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jhp
Member
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# Posted: 8 Sep 2020 09:11am
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I had a similar situation and I found the most helpful thing to do was to call the guy at the power company and send him a picture just like you have here. You want power here at this spot for a few years years and eventually you plan to build over here.
When I did the same thing, he came up with a plan that I hadn't even thought of. After watching them use their purpose-built machinery for installing underground cable I pretty much would never dig another trench if I had the option.
They did a 300 foot run for me in about 20 minutes using this tractor sized sewing machine looking thing - it plowed a perfect trench a couple feet deep in front, int he middle it dropped the cable and then stitched up the earth behind it. After they ran over the stitch with the truck on the way out you could hardly tell they were there.
Knowing what I was planning to do in the future, they left plenty of expansion line in the cavity underneath the transformer so it could be moved later when needed.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 8 Sep 2020 09:38am
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No matter how you do it put a main pannel at the meter then run underground to your site. Having a main pannel at the meter allows you to run a generator at the location of the main. Easy from the point of use..and also the ability to put sub pannels in
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 8 Sep 2020 12:39pm
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@ ICC 100 amp should be more than sufficient for immediate and near future needs. My camper only needs 30 amp and figure another 20-30 amps if i add a sand point well pump and maybe some lights around camp or in a small shed.
The only thing the power company really requires is: "An Inspection Report from a State of Wisconsin certified electrical inspector or a Wiring Compliance Statement from the electrician needs to be received by WPS before energizing the electrical service." So basically the local building inspector needs to come out and approve the pedestal/meter setup before she gives the OK to the power company to energize the property.
@JHP Shortly after posting this the designer at the power company finally called me back. I'm actually going to take a vacation day and head up there to meet with him to discuss my options.
@BrettNY I'm really leaning towards the idea of just using the "free" alotment of 125' and putting a meter/panel in that spot. This way it doesn't cost anything out of pocket. I can then trench in my own cable the remaining 275'...my labor is free 
What kind and gauge of cable would i need if i wanted to run 100amps of power say 300' underground to a sub-panel? I just want to see what wire would cost me locally.
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mj1angier
Member
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# Posted: 8 Sep 2020 01:46pm
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I would do the free 125 ft if it gets you close enough to where you can run extension to camper safely. That way you will have power but can change where the cabin might be if you have been using land for a bit
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 8 Sep 2020 04:04pm
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So can i buy or make a 275' extension cord that can handle 30amps?!
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scott100
Member
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# Posted: 8 Sep 2020 04:33pm - Edited by: scott100
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You'd have to have a 4 awg copper extension cord to go 275' for 30a 240v. Pretty big cord and not a safe way to go about it.
Concerning your first question about 100 amp service underground, I come up with 4/0 awg aluminum for less than a 3% drop but you should consult with an electrician about this, not us folks on the internet
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 8 Sep 2020 04:42pm
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4/0 may be right but I haven't ran the voltage drop calculator. Get direct burry wire or MHF(mobile home feeder). That's about $2.86 per foot.
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mj1angier
Member
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# Posted: 8 Sep 2020 06:36pm
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Or just move camper a little closer to power point, lol.
Camper is a temporary spot so I does not have to in perfect spot- the cabin needs to be in that spot. Camper just needs to not be in the way of working on cabin!
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 8 Sep 2020 07:22pm
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If I was going to buy a piece of wire that wasn't a 120v extension cord for this I would buy the wire I planned on useing at the cabin. I think you will find that power on a construction site is needed.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 9 Sep 2020 08:01am
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So the camper spot we've picked out is actually next to where i suspect the cabin will go...just not a 100% certain.
I like the idea of direct burying myself the 4/0awg wire and then maybe spooling up extra at one end so i have some additional line to work with in the event i need to move that subpanel once we build a cabin.
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 9 Sep 2020 08:36am
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The power company wants it so deep, you will find if its crosses or goes under a road, it will need conduit. Find the shortest path from a transformer and make a straight line. Plan on a 200A service, even if you only need 100 now.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 9 Sep 2020 09:10am
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The power company only runs 200amp service now is what i was told. What you add after the meter is up to the property owner.
They want a 10' wide path, 5' on either side of the wire trench for wherever they run the power. So to avoid cutting a lane through my woods to the road, they suggest chasing it down a driveway which is what i'm planning to do.
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Irrigation Guy
Member
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# Posted: 9 Sep 2020 11:51am
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My property had a service on it when I bought it with 100 amp panel on a pole that unused to feed a trailer home. I ran 4/0 aluminum from panel on pole 400’ to my cabin which has a sub panel. I feed the well out of main panel with low voltage control from the cabin because well is at the old trailer site and it would have cost another $1000 to run high voltage from th cabin back to the well.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 9 Sep 2020 01:10pm
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So i need to figure out what wire will cost me at the big box stores locally. So 4/0 aluminum, direct bury (UHD right?)..but how many conductors?
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Irrigation Guy
Member
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# Posted: 9 Sep 2020 02:46pm
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For a sub panel you need 2 hots, 1 neutral, and 1 ground. Ground can be smaller. I did 4/0 4/0 4/0 2/0.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 9 Sep 2020 02:53pm
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Looks like $3ft
https://www.menards.com/main/electrical/electrical-wire-cable/outdoor-electrical-cabl e/4-0-4-0-4-0-2-0-aluminum-mobile-home-feeder-per-foot/3692075/p-1444422246168-c-1525 874617504.htm
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Irrigation Guy
Member
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# Posted: 9 Sep 2020 03:12pm
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Keep in mind 4/0 will not fit into 100 amp panel. I had to reduce to 2 awg copper in a junction box on each end
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 10 Sep 2020 05:40am
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https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/4-0-4-0-4-0-2-0-wake-forest-underground-secondary -distribution-cable.html?utm_source=google-shopping&utm_medium=organic&gclid=EAIaIQob ChMIg8KikqXe6wIVouiGCh100wFKEAQYASABEgK8tvD_BwE
https://www.nassauelectrical.com/products/urd-wake-forest-4-0-4-0-4-0-2-0
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 10 Sep 2020 05:41am
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Also check a few local supply houses..what ever you get measure the wire length prior to sticking it in the ground...I found this out the hard way.
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 10 Sep 2020 08:16am
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Quoting: Irrigation Guy Keep in mind 4/0 will not fit into 100 amp panel. I had to reduce to 2 awg copper in a junction box on each end
And to O/P, when you make a connection using AL wire, use anti oxidant (Noalox from Home Depot) on the wires at the connectors, use this for any conductor, dissimilar metals create corrosion.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 10 Sep 2020 08:17am
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@Brettny...looks identical to the menards stuff and a couple cents cheaper per ft. If i go this route, i'll deffinately shop the wire around. I'll ask some of the electricians at work if they know of places for deals.
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Irrigation Guy
Member
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# Posted: 10 Sep 2020 08:21am
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Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech And to O/P, when you make a connection using AL wire, use anti oxidant (Noalox from Home Depot) on the wires at the connectors, use this for any conductor, dissimilar metals create corrosion.
The connectors I used had that goop inside them from the factory.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 14 Sep 2020 08:22am
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UPDATE!!
Well i met with the engineer/designer from the power company this weekend up at the new property. Let me say that if you can get one of these folks onsite vs. just over a phone, it makes a world of difference having that conversation in person and onsite!
Although i spoke at length to another engineer/designer early on in my land search, the info was either inaccurate or i misheard it.
Anyways, i was under the assumption i had to calculate my footage from an existing transformer. Come to find out that was not true and they were willing to drop another transformer closer to my driveway or in my property depending how far back i wanted to be. This was great news as my primary driveway was almost 100' from the nearest transformer.
The bad new was our chosen spot was 300' down the driveway. So my options were to run heavier gauge service wire from a transformer dropped at my driveway entrance and assume the risk of voltage drop, or bring a transformer into the property and pay $$ for primary and service wire.
As the engineer pulled up a map showing all the wire in the area and i noticed the wire running along my property on the other road (i am on a corner lot)near what might have been an old driveway on my property. I said can we tap into that wire and he said sure. Come to find out i've got enough clearance going through the woods from this spot so that a service line would only be 160' from the road!!
He didn't want to commit hard numbers onsite, but he's thinking my cost will be around $500 to bring power in!!! This was great news! So i should be receiving an official quote this week.
Now all i have to go is send in the check as soon as the quote comes and that'll get me on the schedule. Then i just need to install the meter base/panel i choose from their approved list. Then we should have wire run in ~3 weeks. Once that's done, inspector has to sign off on the pedestal and they'll activate power.
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old243
Member
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# Posted: 14 Sep 2020 09:25am
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Always best to get a service layout , onsite. The layout guy, does lots of them, and most times will have good ideas . You can always get lots of ideas on how to feed your trailer and eventual cabin. By talking to him. The set up will also meet inspection, requirements. If you will be bringing , your power in through a wooded area overhead. I would recommend removing tall trees that might fall across your line at a later date. Good Luck . old 243
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 14 Sep 2020 11:50am
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Cable will be buried through property.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2020 12:49pm
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Well the official quote is in.....$90.76 to bring power into the property!! Well below any numbers mentioned to this point!
I'll have around $350 invested with the freestanding meter pedestal and breaker panel post setup.
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jsahara24
Member
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2020 01:15pm
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Good deal...
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jhp
Member
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2020 01:54pm
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Thats about as close to free as you can get LOL.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone do it for less than $1000 between the power company charges and the cost for boxes, breakers, etc.
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