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Nobadays
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2019 09:22am
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Just wondering what others on here do when it comes to using stabilizers in your generator fuel. I use a HF Predator 3500 inverter/generator and so far have just under 300 hours on it. We are doing a lot of work around the cabin so burning through around 5 gallons of fuel a week. Written right on the generator it says to use fuel stabilizer.
At first I was adding the recommended amount of stabilizer to each gas can - I keep 17 gallons of fuel on hand, one 5 has stabilizer and is kind of the reserve can. Two fives are rotated each week along with the 2 gallon can I use for refueling. In these two 5s and the 2 gallon can I no longer add stabilizer as it isn't going to sit long.
Locally the fuel I get is 85 octane with up to 10% ethanol.
What are you doing?
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2019 09:58am
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I thought I should add this... from the Denver Post: "Research several years ago from the American Petroleum Institute showed that lower air pressure at higher altitudes allows vehicles to perform as well with 85 octane as they would with 87 at lower altitudes."
My generator runs fine on the 85 octane... no pre -ignition/knocking. I do know that the manufacturer recommends 87+ octane but yo my knowledge the only sacrifice of lower octane fuels is power loss and/knocking.
Correct?
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morock
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2019 10:00am
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I use stabilizer in all my cans, but dont burn through fuel as fast as you. A tank on my outboard will last me over a month. Also I will only use 91+ octane no ethanol. All the small engine guys I talk too, says this is a must.
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2019 10:06am
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I have heard too that you should use high octane fuels in small engines but not sure what backs up that claim... I found on the Briggs and Stratton site that they say 85 octane fuel is fine over 5,000'. We are at 9,500'.
Just want to do right by my generator and get the most life out of it.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2019 10:33am - Edited by: silverwaterlady
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We don't use fuel stabilizers in our fuel. We go to the boat marina and buy marine fuel.
We use it in all of our small engines.
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Atlincabin
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2019 10:38am
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Detonation (pre-ignition) is the issue and the reason for higher octane fuels. Detonation occurs when the octane is lower than required for the air/fuel mix and density. At higher altitudes, there is less air (lower density), so the mixture, when compressed ends up at lower density than it does at sea level. Therefore, the higher the altitude, the lower the octane needed to prevent detonation. (note that these effects also are dependent on compression ratio - higher compression ratio requires higher octane because the mixture is more dense when compressed in the cylinder) If you go to the gas station anywhere in Colorado, regular gas is 85 octane, compared to California or Texas, where regular gas is 87 octane. They can get away with this lower octane because your car (they assume) will be at higher altitude and therefore lower pressure than it would be at sea level. At 9500 feet, you could easily get away with 83 octane fuel (if you could find it).
That's a short and dirty explanation of octane. Back to the original question: I only put stabilizer in my generator fuel at the end of the year when it will sit for several months before being fired up again. I'm not sure the rationale for putting stabilizer in all the fuel you run through a generator. If you don't want to mess with stabilizer, go to the local airport and get some avgas (100 octane), which has a lower vapor pressure and will stay stable for much longer than regular/premium auto fuel.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2019 10:41am - Edited by: silverwaterlady
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www.pure-gas.org
This web site will show fuel locations that sell ethanol free gas.
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2019 11:30am
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At the rate you are going through gas I wouldn't worry about stabilizer or ethanol free. When you get to where it is going to sit for a longer period of time, then I'd find some ethanol free gas and add a stabilizer and make sure you run the engine so that fuel is distributed through the fuel system.
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2019 01:43pm
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Thanks for all the input! Atlinecabin... thank you for the octane education, confirms what I was seeing searching online.
We are in the process of putting solar on the cabin, finger's crossed it all fires up at the end of the week when the panels go up on the roof. It has been a major project. AFTER the solar comes online I will definitely use stabilizers in the fuel as I'm pretty sure the generator will sit idle in between building projects or other high power required activities.
Thanks heaps!
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Brettny
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2019 02:30pm
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NorthRick hit the nail on the head. What makes stabilizer needed is fuel sitting around. Smaller thr engine the better the fuel that needed.
I use 91 octain E0 fuel in all my 2 stroke stuff and stabilize everything just before the leaf start to drop.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2019 03:58pm
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I use only alcohol free fuels for all my power equipment, very important for the stuff that can set for some time. If your using a genie all the time, its not critical, but if its going to set over a winter, purge old fuel out with alkie free stuff, then add stabil.
To find alkie free, go to http://www.pure-gas.org
Also, a marina and airports are alkie free.
The problem with ethanol is it collects water. Water molecules are larger then fuel and will not pass through the smaller jetting and just make it blubber and cough. On yo ur carb, you can remove the fuel bowl on most and you will see the water as it sets on the bottom and doesn't mix. A womans panty hose will separate water from gas, stretch it over your funnel, pour gas through it. Be surprised to see beads of water rolling around on top of pantyhose.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2019 04:08pm
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Im not sure what state your in but a bunch of Stewarts in NY have 91* E0 as there standard 91* fuel.
A few years back i was in the Adirondacks and got 93*E0 fuel at a station that had every fuel you could imagine. That fuel was nearly bad just coming out of the pump. So freshness of fuel is a big issue and just because it came out of the pump dosnt mean it wasnt there for months. This fuel was yellow and smelled bad within a month.
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Atlincabin
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2019 06:11pm
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Pure-gas is good, but check the dates as some of their data are really old.
In a pinch, you can separate out the ethanol from gasoline. Add about 10% water to the ethanolated fuel and shake or stir vigorously. Let it sit for about 15 minutes (maybe more depending on how big your batch is). Ethanol partitions into the water out of the gasoline. Then you need to decant off the good gasoline.
The simple test for ethanol in fuel is to put a bit of water in the bottom of a clear bottle (I usually use a gatorade type bottle, but tall, narrow bottles are best). Mark the water level on the outside. Add fuel (usually 5-10x the amount of water) and shake. Let it sit for a couple minutes and you will see the water and gasoline separate. If the water level increases, then you had ethanol in the gas. if the water level stays the same, it is pure gas. Typical 10% ethanol fuel is very obvious with this test. 1% can be determined relatively easily if you are careful with your marking.
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2019 08:52pm
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All good advice. Looks like there may be ethanol free fuel near me in LaJara, CO. Before winter I will make sure to run pure fuel with stabilizer through the generator.
Thank you!
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ChuckDynasty
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# Posted: 18 Jun 2019 09:04pm
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PRI-G
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spoofer
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# Posted: 18 Jun 2019 10:55pm
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ALWAYS ethanol free gas in All my small engines, boats , 4 wheeler, mower etc.
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justincasei812
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# Posted: 20 Jun 2019 11:44am - Edited by: justincasei812
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I have tried rec fuel/ marine gas in some of my small engines and they just don't seem to run as well/ loss of horsepower, a little spark knock. Could it be the supplier? I run just regular gas (87 octane) in the summer in anything I am using frequently but as winter comes and I don't use things I start to use the rec fuel and do notice a difference. Will the higher grade (91 octane) last the fall/winter/ spring months when I am not using the equipment? Next time I get fuel i will start using the higher octane.
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Aklogcabin
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# Posted: 20 Jun 2019 12:51pm
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Hello all, for my small engines, I use only premium gasoline . Don’t put Stabil in in mowers till fall, but I do tend to put it in ATVs and outboards regularly. I do put red heet ( isopropanol) I think, in all small engines every time I refuel.
My thought being that it is worth the cost of preventative maintenance. With the ATVs and snogos we can end up a long ways from nowhere pretty fast and I want to know that I have done all I can. I once put regular gasoline in my beautiful wife’s and my snogos once that ended up with 2 sleds not running. That could have ended really bad. .
Btw, I was able to get several 32 oz bottles of stabil off the net for $8.81 ea.
Hope you all can keep your engines running great so you can enjoy more cabin time.
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 20 Jun 2019 05:20pm
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Quoting: justincasei812 I have tried rec fuel/ marine gas in some of my small engines and they just don't seem to run as well/ loss of horsepower, a little spark knock. Could it be the supplier?
You have to be careful where you buy your marine fuel. Some of it can have a lot of water in it. That could be your issue as opposed to the octane rating. You should be running whatever octane the equipment says to run and shouldn't need to go higher.
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Fanman
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# Posted: 20 Jun 2019 05:58pm
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I use avgas (aviation fuel) in all my small engines. 100 octane, yeah it costs more but for the amount I use it's trivial, and it has a two year shelf life.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 20 Jun 2019 08:29pm
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We’ve never had a problem with water in our marine fuel.
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 21 Jun 2019 11:38am - Edited by: NorthRick
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Quoting: silverwaterlady We’ve never had a problem with water in our marine fuel.
Depends on the facility. Up here it is a big problem. I know guys who filled their boat up and the fuel had so much water in it that it completely filled up their fuel/water separators in a short period of time.
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Bancroft bound
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# Posted: 23 Jun 2019 09:15am
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Add to Last tank of fuel when going to sit a while.
A little extra to start season, in case of a little varnish.
Sea Foam...... the end
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 23 Jun 2019 09:53am
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We use Seafoam in our vehicles about every 4000 miles and it seems to help keep the injectors clean.
We should get our solar finished up today so I will put Stabil in my remaining gas cans. It has been two days now since we ran the generator. The inverter and lithium modules have been providing all the power we have needed after charging their with the genny.
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paulz
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# Posted: 31 Jan 2020 12:22pm
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Bump.
The fire truck I help maintain has a V-twin Briggs that runs the water pump. It is plumbed to the truck's main fuel tank, so uses the same 5-10% ethanol as the truck. We get the gas free from the county pump so it is what it is.
Earlier this week at drill it was up to it's old tricks. After not running it for a month it runs on one cylinder. I have take the damn carb off 5 times already and cleared the coagulated goop out of the jets. This time I let it run for half and hour and after heating up enough it cleared itself and ran on both cylinders. Can't do that at a fire obviously.
They don't want to plumb a separate tank, so the idea now is to run some fuel additive in the main tank. The truck only covers maybe 10 miles a month on calls so a tank lasts a long time.
Which brings me to my question: What additive would do the best job of keeping the fuel in the float bowl from jelling up, and also be compatible with the truck (2016 Ford) engine?
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 31 Jan 2020 12:55pm
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Paulz.... I would go with Seafoam for a couple of reasons...
It is a Petroleum based product and mixes with the fuel, and is a strong cleaner to clean/keep carbs clean... here:
We had a lot of trouble with a Honda water pump not wanting to keep running last spring, sat with a tiny bit of ethanol fuel still left in the carb after running it dry. We used a big slug of Seafoam, let it sit for 24 hours after running for a bit. The engine ran better but still wanted to die occasionally. Kept running it with more than recommended amounts of Seafoam and before long it ran great. Then went back to recommended amounts.
Stabil is the go-to for most folks but it is glycol based so it will separate from the fuel and sit on the top. This is great for many applications like fuel storage as it forms a "seal" on top the fuel to help prevent moisture absorption and evaporation. But it won't clean and isn't as effective (IMHO) to keep water/corrosion from blocking carburetor jets, etc.
We use both.... and have switched to non-ethanol fuels for our small engines. I still put Seafoam in and when storing put in Stabil.
Here is a bit more info on stabilizers (had to find this again!): https://weingartz.com/expert-advice/2017/01/fuel-stabilizers-sta-bil-or-sea-foam/
Cheers!
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FishHog
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# Posted: 31 Jan 2020 02:20pm
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Free or not if you don’t burn through ethanol fuel in 2 months it’s going to give you issues even with stabil and sea foam although that will prolong issues. If you need it to run without warning use ethanol free fuel. Or it won’t run one of these days when you need it
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ICC
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# Posted: 31 Jan 2020 02:32pm
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Why not have a small tank, maybe one gallon size tank, that holds only non-ethanol fuel. Have a three way valve to allow selection of fuel from the trucks main tank and the special no-alcohol tank. When the pump engine is run for water pumping the engine is started on no-alcohol fuel and then switched to the main tank. Before the pump engine is shut down the fuel selector is changed to run the alcohol-free fuel for a minute or two. That alcohol-free fuel should be treated with seafoam, or there should be a system in place to drain that small tank every 2 months and replace it with fresh alcohol-free fuel. A log entry should be made when refreshing the fuel.
There should be a logbook for all the maintenance of the equipment, is there one? My Dad taught us to use a logbook for all the machinery decades ago. Makes sense.
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paulz
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# Posted: 31 Jan 2020 03:42pm - Edited by: paulz
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I'm not sure why they are against a separate tank, other than taking up space in an already overcrowded truck, and having to keep a supply of E free fuel around and keep the tank filled.
Another thought I had was extending the float bowl drain screw with a hose and valve to somewhere easily accessible and draining it after running.
It does generally get run at least once a month, I guess over the holidays it got neglected. We'll probably try the Seafoam and make sure it is run more often and see how that works out. If not have to try one of the above solutions.
One thing I have noticed, having a fleet of generators, motorcycles, old cars and what not, is some carbs are more susceptible than others. The old Amal carbs on my Brit bikes can sit for a year with ethanol gas and fire right up. Has to do with where the jets are situated and the material the carbs are made out of, my guess.
Thanks guys!
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 31 Jan 2020 05:51pm
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Is there a fuel cutoff valve for this thing? If so, after your drill, shut the fuel off to the pump and then fire it up. Let it run until it dies. Next drill turn on the fuel and fire it up for the drill. The idea being that it is stored with the float bowl and fuel passages empty.
Add me to the Seafoam believers.
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