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xinull
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# Posted: 16 Sep 2018 05:54pm
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I've got a dilemma, but i think deep down i already know the answer. i guess i'm just looking for some outside confirmation 
I was in the process of cleaning up a site to build a camp, at this speed maybe next summer. But there's 2 things about the site location i'm currently at that's irritating me. 1. There's a steep hill right before getting there, almost 45 degree angle about 25-30 feet high. 2. it's somewhat close to the public road (about 500 feet). The steep hill can be fixed by grading the road with an excavator, but that's a lot of work. Being close to the public road, i can't do anything about that. The current site has partial shade from a few large trees, but for the most part is a sunny area.
So yesterday i found a second site, it's a lot further to the public road, about 1000 feet. And the hill is a lot less steep at that location, it's barely 8-10 feet high with an incline of 20 degrees. But the issue is that the site is full of large mature maple trees. So the site is almost fully shaded. I'm not a big fan of cutting trees for no reason, so i dont really want to cut them all. But even if i cut a few, i feel it wouldn't be enough to let the sun through. I feel like this site will be mostly shaded.
I personally think having sun is better than having too much shade for a cabin location. I was wondering what are you're thoughts since most of you all have cabins already, i'm sure you all have your preferences and advices about what's best, sun or shade
cheers
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spoofer
Member
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# Posted: 16 Sep 2018 06:11pm
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sun for heat and solar
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 16 Sep 2018 06:32pm - Edited by: ICC
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Will you be wanting to buy insurance to cover against fire, wind damage, etc? If you will be wanting to have such insurance start by asking a few insurance companies if they have any set back requirements for trees. In the west where I am, we cannot buy insurance that will include fire insurance if there are any trees closer than 30 feet.
As for the large mature maple trees that cover the second potential site, I would not be overly worried about having to cut many down to clear a cabin site, unless they were the only trees you had. Trees grow and are either harvested or die for many different reasons all the time. It does not sound like you are going to clear-cut an entire forest. But also don't be too much of a tree-hugger. Trees grow and sometimes get too crowded as they reach maturity. Perhaps because they are large and mature it is time to harvest. Perhaps you can find a local, or at least nearby, sawyer who will pay you for the trees for the timber value. You should be able to ask the state or province forestry department what spacing or what tree density is recommended per acre in your area. That is usually measured in what is called basal sq ft per acre. As trees get larger the ideal number of trees decreases.
Quoting: xinull ...having sun is better than having too much shade...
Too much sun possibly makes a cabin or home hotter in summer than need be. A/C has to run more. Nice shade can mean not having to run A/C. OTOH, trees too close mean danger from falling in high winds, danger from fire and, as mentioned, possibly making it difficult to obtain fire insurance. Too much shade can cut down on the ground level plant diversity.
Sun is great for solar PV panels and water heating panels. PV panels don't necessarily need to be close by or on the cabin or house. Mine are mostly two and three hundred feet distant in two clearings with good sun exposure.
I would rather have a longer more flat road than a steep hill any day of the week. Roads on steep hills require more maintenance; much more maintenance especially if heavy rains are a part of life.
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ICC
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# Posted: 16 Sep 2018 06:42pm
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While this decision process is going on also keep in mind how much roof eave overhang you will want along with window placement. If you can work through that before building you can shade the windows in summer and have sunlight still hit the glass in winter. Though nowadays with the energy codes enforced in many locations the required glazing limits heat gain so there is not too much winter gain available. Plus heat gain must be balanced with heat loss. Just another detail to check out before a design is complete.
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chickasaw_hunter
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# Posted: 16 Sep 2018 07:52pm
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My cabin is in an aspen grove. I like it because in the summer I get the shade and a cool cabin. In the winter the leaves have fallen and I have the sun. I would feel the same way if I could build in a maple stand.
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paulz
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# Posted: 16 Sep 2018 10:32pm
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My cabin is as far from the road as I could, about 500 feet. Solitude is utmost important, 100 cars a day can go by, hate it when I have to work near the noisy traffic. I'd sacrifice trees if I had to get a quiet spot.
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buckybuck
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# Posted: 16 Sep 2018 10:34pm
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It depends. Why do you want a cabin? Do you want it to be a contrast to your primary home, with as few modern conveniences (like air conditioning) as possible? If so, I'd go with the shade because it's gonna be a lot cooler in summer. Since you've got maples, you're located in a deciduous area, so you'll have the benefits of a warming sun in winter to help warm your cabin during the colder months.
Solar panels, obviously, aren't going to like the shade, so that'll limit you if that's a concern. But seriously think about how much solar you need before making access to direct sunlight the deciding factor--you may find you don't really need that much electric generating capacity, depending on how long you're gonna be at your place at a time and what you're running on electricity. I have a small solar system on my weekend cabin and the panels are in shade half the day, and it's still adequate for my needs.
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darz5150
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2018 12:22am - Edited by: darz5150
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Trees can be good/bad.
This one fell from across the creek. It used give us some good shade in the afternoon. Then it smashed everything it used to provide shade for.
Sometimes you have to control the trees. Its easier using a chainsaw to cut down a tree. Than it is having to use a chainsaw to get out your back door because you didn't cut down the tree and it smashed your gazebo, BBQ grill, TV, landscaping etc......And then...you still have to cut the tree!😵
Its a lot more fun bucking a tree into firewood, without your stuff underneath it.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2018 02:26pm
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Well I am on a Mixed Forest property which is primarily mixed evergreens with assorted deciduous (Maple, Apple, Poplar Birch etc). It is located on a southern side of a ridge with excellent south exposure providing sun into the cleared areas and for my solar system. The cabin is more or less tucked in behind some 30+ foot spruce & cedar (on the south) and on the north is forest and the top of the ridge.
I made the decision to place the cabin in such a local because I wanted to make use of the natural wind breaks provided by the trees, the sunlight control during the summer so as to divert direct sunlight from heating up the cabin exterior while allowing for good sun through the windows in winter because the deciduous trees on the south allow the sun through in winter. I am within the minimum setbacks and fortunately because the ridge is a set of terraces the natural elevations made it work perfectly.
My suggestion is to look seriously at the land you are interested in, the lay of it, where your sun is (take a compass to know exact travel lines). Note the trees and the time of day and where the shade falls. Remember that evergreens will provide shade year round while deciduous will shade you in summer when it's most helpful. Running an AC system can be expensive but if you can shade your place at the right time of year you can save a lot and make it much more liveable all around.
As for cutting trees and clearing the property - areas to build on, none of this is a waste especially if you plan on having a wood stove (which is always a good idea for a cabin) just make sure that when your cutting it, you sort it and cut it to size and stack it off somewhere for use when ready. You can also re-plant new tress strategically, even ones which can provide goodies like apples and other fruit bearers.
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moneypitfeeder
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2018 06:48pm - Edited by: moneypitfeeder
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What type of maples are they, in your alt site? I only ask because the life expectancy of silver maple is less than some of the others (red maple is abt 80 to 100 years, silver is 35-130 yrs). They might be due to start having nature take it's course anyway. What kind of condition are the trees in?
All of the trees at our cabin are in about a 50-ft ring around our cabin, and it is still often dark in there. The ones that are beyond the 50-ft ring are tall enough that they still shade the house to a degree, some sun gets in. If we had skylights in the roof, it would be brighter, but where the windows are at the first floor they do not seem to get enough light to ever make the cabin seem "bright." Also, due to the proximity of the trees, if any of them do fall, our cabin is at risk. There are many that could reach and/or crush the cabin if they go.
Long story short, I'd love it to be brighter, and safer, but during the heat of the summer I love the shade that those trees, which are to close to the cabin provide. We go to our cabin predominately in the summer, and w/out A/C or fans, every bit of shade is a blessing, but your needs may be different.
There are also considerations as to your current, vs. future vehicles. Would site 1 require a 4x4 if the weather is bad/if there is a washout/regular use? It sounds like site 2 should be accessible with a regular car given average weather. Do you want visitors to be able to access the property, and/or (if needed) do you plan to always have a 4x4? Our site, while remote, is still accessible to regular cars, and maybe even utility vehicles if we need building supplies. Something to think of if you need a concrete truck or something.
Lastly, I would recommend a "tent camping" test run at both settings due to the proximity of the road. You could easily trial staying a night or 2 at both locations to see if the road noise would be a deal-breaker. We are off the beaten path, however, a mile or so away is a main road, and the noise from there can be disrupting. Good luck on your build!!
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Gary O
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2018 08:16pm
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Quoting: chickasaw_hunter My cabin is in an aspen grove. I like it because in the summer I get the shade and a cool cabin. In the winter the leaves have fallen and I have the sun. I would feel the same way if I could build in a maple stand.
Yup
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Borrego
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2018 10:37am
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Quoting: ICC I would rather have a longer more flat road than a steep hill any day of the week.
^^^
All day long baby! Cut down some of those suckers. use them to build a log cabin....leave some strategically placed for shade for the porch etc......
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SamH
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# Posted: 23 Sep 2018 06:55pm
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I love trees and the shade they provide, but I'm also in the south. It's easier to heat a cabin or house here that cool one. I'll put up with some extra danger of falling trees to have them. In 2008 an F4 tornado piled 10 large trees on top of my home. I fixed the house and replanted the trees.
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Gary O
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# Posted: 23 Sep 2018 09:27pm
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Quoting: SamH In 2008 an F4 tornado piled 10 large trees on top of my home. I fixed the house and replanted the trees.
and I thought I loved trees...
Quoting: SamH I'll put up with some extra danger of falling trees to have them.
Me too
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xinull
Member
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2018 10:57am
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Thanks a lot for all the good advice. There's lots to think about.
The road nearby is only used by UTV/ATV/Skidoos....or big mud trucks. So the traffic isn't really my issue. I just dont want to bring attention to people going by. So i dont want them to be able to see the cabin. In the summer i know both site are hidden, but i'm not sure how that's gonna be in the winter since i just bough the land and its hard to say how far i'll be able to see through the forest...but i think the first site will be visible.
I think i'll have to go back this weekend and look again at both sites. Make a decision and see if the 2nd site will offer me a better position.
Bottom line, from all your comments, i feel like i need something in the middle. A little bit of sun and a little bit of shade. Oh and a better road
Thanks guys!
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