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Ted
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# Posted: 12 Aug 2018 01:26am
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Howdy! New to the forum, in preparation for a build on a full-time home my wife and I'd like to start next season. Doing my homework right now. I'm debating between two configurations- a classic 16x20 pioneer cabin with subsequent additions, or one single 20x30 open floor plan. Both with loft bedroom.
Our idea was to use a shed-type addition off the back of the 16x20 for a bathroom, utility, and a bit of storage. And maybe an addition off the side too, extending another 14 feet or so in the future. The idea is that we get into the cabin NOW for a more or less economical price, and take our time expanding....as our ancestors would have done it.
I figured that 16x20 alone isn't realistic for us full time, we'd need a laundry room, decent size bath, and other "wants".
I'm leaning toward concrete piers and 6x12 lumber done in dovetail for the 16x20, and timber-frame for the shed/future additions.
Any friendly advice or insights welcome.
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Princelake
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# Posted: 12 Aug 2018 08:51am
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Lofts are a good idea on paper and cheaper and easier to build up then out but they are always super hot and cramped. I wouldn't do a lot. I'm doing planning right now and making plans for a 2 bed half bath lake cottage and 16x20 is small,very small to be living in. I started at that size and I'm up to 20x24 for my needs and it will still be tight. Search Google for granny flats and it brings up some decent layouts. If your budget can allow it I'd do it all in one shot then doing some kind of addashack cabin that looks awful and it prone to problems with all different roof lines and cut up floor plan.
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ICC
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# Posted: 12 Aug 2018 09:40pm
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As for the idea of designing and building a floor plan that will be added on to, I personally believe that is a bad idea. That often results in some otherwise un-needed compromise in the layout. If one already knows a 16x20 is too small for the intended final use, I believe you should take a step back and design a floor plan that is larger and will suit the needs or the wants.
An addition often runs into difficulties with how to roof over the addition and have that new roof fit into the aesthetics. Also unless the original section is built with tall enough walls it is difficult to impossible to add a shed roof addition and have sufficient roof pitch. There are minimum pitches for each type of roofing material. It is frequent to run into problems with interior headroom when adding a shed roof room onto a building. Good planning can help head off some of these difficulties.
Adding on also means that what was originally an exterior wall is now an interior wall. The main thing I see wrong with that is that interior walls don't need to be built as strong or with the same materials as the exterior walls; extra money gets spent for a structure that is not needed. You get more bang for the buck you spend if you can plan out and build the main structure once. Take your time finishing some of the interior space is IMO, a better idea than building small with the knowledge that you need to add to be comfortable.
I too, do not like lofts. In general, lofts are always warmer than the main floor. If the main floor is warm then the loft is warmer. Maybe hot. If the intended use is for sleeping space, that is a problem. Of course, if you have a heating or cooling system that includes ductwork and an air handler the heat can be moved around some. That does not usually include homes that are wood heated.
Perhaps a 20x30with a full upper floor could be considered? That gives space for laundry, storage spaces for food, clothing, odds and ends, etc.
I'm not at all keen on building a permanent, full-time home on any kind of piers or posts. Unless designed as "piles" by an engineer piers are often the top candidates for causing future problems due to movement. A friend of mine makes a good living repairing or replacing subpar foundations such as piers, no matter if they are wood or concrete. One of the biggest problems with piers is eventual uneven movement as each pier is independent of the others.
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Fanman
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# Posted: 15 Aug 2018 05:55pm
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Quoting: ICC Also unless the original section is built with tall enough walls it is difficult to impossible to add a shed roof addition and have sufficient roof pitch.
^^^^This^^^
All of the cabins in my area were originally 18x18 hip roof structures on pilings (stacked flat rocks, or wooden posts going down to exposed bedrock). Most have shed roofed screen porches on the lake (downhill) side, but many have additions on the uphill side, too, either way too low to the ground or too flat roof or both... then leaves and debris blows underneath and rots it out from underneath. The original cabins usually had the 18' square center section divided into one big room and two small rooms. Ours has the 18' square center opened up for the living room, an 8' wide screen porch on the downhill side, a 12' wide kitchen on the uphill side, and three 8' wide bedrooms on the other (mostly downhill) side. The bedrooms are a step down and so have adequate ceiling height, but the porch and kitchen have low ceilings. It's OK because neither my wife nor I are tall, but my 6'4" friend always bangs his head and says, "You and your dammed hobbit house!"
When we got the cabin, the uphill side addition floorboards were resting on dirt, and the only way you could tell where the joists had been was a line of lighter colored dirt. Lots of work to excavate, carrying the dirt out one barrel at a time, and rebuild the floor.
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Thewaylifeshouldbe
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# Posted: 24 Aug 2018 11:10pm
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Id have to agree with the previous posters that building a wider structure to begin with is probably the more economical approach with a lot more comfortable loft Plus you don't run the risk of of winding up with a hodgepodge of a building. I have however seen a 16' wide gambrel that was quite comfortable uptairs. Either that or possibly a full post?
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Borrego
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# Posted: 25 Aug 2018 12:27pm
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ICC is right about the roof line problems....however there are advantages to building in stages (money, time) and the roof issue can be overcome by simply building the original cabin with 10 or 12 ft high walls, then your subsequent shed roofs will have room for pitch. You'll really need to plan ahead though if you go this direction......even down to the foundation...how are you going to add more load? Maybe wider or double footings on that side? Etc.....
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 25 Aug 2018 02:19pm
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Here's a thought to ponder upon if considering lofts - useable upstairs space.
Rather than 2x6x8 walls, use 2x6x10 or 12. Keep the second floor at 8' and use a cut in (tight) ledger boards, or sister studs (depends on your local codes). This will give you technically a 1-1/2 storey elevation with a 1-1/2' knee wall (using the 10') or 3-1/2' (using 12'). Also provides better ceiling height upstairs.
NOTE... as you already know, cathedral ceilings, lofts etc get hot in summer. It is just the way it is as heat rises... So do put a windows upstairs. I built a Cool Roof on my place and it makes a world of difference to the whole place. This summer we had 35C /95F days @ 80% Humidity and inside only 22C / 71F and upstairs only a couple of degrees cooler.
See here for more info... There are articles on GBA and more but this is a great summary.
http://www.houstoncoolmetalroofs.com/cool-roof-information/cool-roof-design-texas/
SERIOUSLY consider it … BTW, I have no affiliation, I am in NE Ontario Canada and have a thread here about my cabin build... it's hyper insulated on slab foundation... etc...
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smallcabin
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# Posted: 30 Oct 2018 01:11pm
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Steve_S made a great suggestion. I built my cabin (16x24) like he said and I have plenty of headroom on the loft area. Not sure how to attach photos? Will see if I can share them later if you want to see?
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rockies
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# Posted: 30 Oct 2018 07:23pm
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The trick to building in stages is to design the entire cabin and then see where you can create "sections". Once you know where the additions will go you include all the necessary framing in the walls to attach the addition.
Timber frame is usually used for the "big" parts of a cabin so the timber can be shown off. Rooms with high cathedral ceilings, not additions.
I also don't like loft bedrooms. Try carrying a load of clean sheets or blankets up there while trying to hold onto the ladder. But if you do go with a loft bedroom make sure you install a code mandated ergress window in case of fire.
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Cowracer
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2018 12:07pm
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I have an actual upstairs floor and not a loft. If I had to do it all over again, I would take whatever steps are necessary to make it all on 1 floor. To save space, I used a very steep pitch on the stairs, and they are very narrow. In my old(er) age, I find the stairs a bit of a PITA to navigate, especially after a few rum and cokes. Keeping it evenly heated (or cooled) is a loosing effort, and I have a gambrel roof, so its low headroom for me anywhere but in the middle of the room. I only use the cabin on the weekends, living full time would compound all those problems.
I can only imagine the PITA that would come from a loft.
Think over the loft very carefully. You wanna climb a ladder every time you wake up and have to pee?
Tim
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2018 12:52pm - Edited by: silverwaterlady
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We have a loft.
Slept in it for a few years. Got tired of going up and down steps to use the bathroom. Added a porta potty up there than it leaked. Luckily I had a plastic mat down.
Moved downstairs. It's much more comfortable.
Now the loft makes for great storage and sleeping space for younger guests.
If it's cold outside and you have some heat on but have a hard time keeping warm, a trip up to the loft will warm you up. It's usually 15-20 degrees warmer up there. I'm going to add a little reading nook up there since some days I can't seem to get warm.
If you are planning to build a cabin to live into old age you might consider having everything on one level.
We added a deck in the back this year that is level with the door and has ramps. This built before we really needed it. The ramps are great for moving the things one needs at the cabin with a moving dolly instead of lifting everything.
We're not getting any younger. Trying to keep the cabin and enjoy it into old age. We know many older folks that have sold their cabins because they could no longer get around.
Im not saying don't build a loft. If we didn't have one I would have very limited storage space and no place for guests to sleep.
Just don't plan on making it a perminent place for you to sleep.
On size. Build the bigger size. You are going to need a mud room and a pantry.
Building one roof is cheaper. You might think you are going to add on later but what if your budget doesn't allow for it later?
Than you are stuck with a cramped small cabin.
Building costs are going to continue to go up.
Trust me I know because this year we finally after 12 years enclosed the front of our cabin porch, made it into a four season room and added the extra small reading loft above the porch.
The change in price of labor and building supplies is shocking. We have gone 40% over budget.
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