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Smawgunner
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# Posted: 29 Dec 2016 03:30pm - Edited by: Smawgunner
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I'm an idiot when it comes to wiring. But I'm replacing a ceiling light operated by two switches, one with a dimmer...with a new fan/light combo. Coming out of the box are 2 white wires, 2 black wires, and 2 red wires. With the old light, the two reds were nutted together, and a black and a white were nutted together. The lone black and the lone white went to the light.
So,....with the ceiling fan, I have 1 white, 1 black, and 1 blue (fan light). The directions don't address what I have in the box. Any ideas????
Thanks!
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sparky30_06
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# Posted: 29 Dec 2016 03:38pm
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you can't run a ceiling fan off a standard dimmer. It sounds like you have 3 ways switches controlling the existing light. Are you wanting both switches to control both the fan and light? or the switches to control the light and the pull chain to control the fan??
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Smawgunner
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# Posted: 29 Dec 2016 04:43pm
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Thanks for the reply Sparky. I was afraid of that. I'll swap out the dimmer for a standard switch. I would like both switches to run just the light and I can manually control the fan.
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 29 Dec 2016 06:02pm - Edited by: DaveBell
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No Green or bare copper wire in there? a.k.a., the ground wire!
Quoting: Smawgunner and a black and a white were nutted together
Quoting: Smawgunner The lone black and the lone white went to the light.
Turn off the appropriate circuit breakers.
Replace the dimmer switch with a regular 3-way switch.
Nut together the fan black to the lone black.
Nut together the fan white to the lone white.
The blue is for the fan light kit.
The red connects the two switches for 3-way operation.
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Smawgunner
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# Posted: 29 Dec 2016 06:30pm
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Thanks Dave, it's an old old house and not much is grounded. In your diagram that shows the power going into the box but in my situation I think the power goes to one of the switches first. Where would you connect the blue wire for the lamp in the ceiling fan?
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Smawgunner
Member
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# Posted: 29 Dec 2016 06:43pm
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Here is what mine looks like. So to run the lights with the switches, and fan on the pull chain???
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 29 Dec 2016 07:24pm
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Lone black supply, fan black wire, and blue lighting wire get nutted together.
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Smawgunner
Member
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# Posted: 29 Dec 2016 07:34pm
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OK just tried that. Both the fan and the light are operated by the switch. The lights dim with the dimmer but so too does the fan.
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 29 Dec 2016 07:56pm
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Without ground wires you are at high risk for fire. I would conduct an annual planned (not surprise) crawling fire drill with two paths of escape from any room. Smoke detectors. Knotted rope for upstairs bedrooms. Install a big eye bolt inside the bedroom window and make a 20 ft rope (1/2 in diameter or >) with knots every 12 inches. On the rope secure a climber grade d-ring to one end and have it coiled/kept at the window or even better have it attached to the eye bolt and ready. If you got kids, take the rope and tie it to a big tree limb and have the kids practice going up and down a few feet. Have them open the window and throw the rope out to test if the window sticks, or is stuck. Lube window with beeswax if needed. Have them open the windows themselves often.
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 29 Dec 2016 08:01pm
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Sparky said don't use the dimmer with a fan motor. I agree. See the part above where I recommended replacing the dimmer with a 3-way switch.
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Smawgunner
Member
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# Posted: 29 Dec 2016 08:20pm - Edited by: Smawgunner
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Lol! Nothing I can do about the absence of a ground...it's a whole house issue. Yeah, that's getting replaced tomorrow. Still can't get the pull chain to the fan separate from the switch.
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 29 Dec 2016 09:05pm
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Quoting: Smawgunner Still can't get the pull chain to the fan separate from the switch.
I do not understand, "pull chain separate from switch".
Either wall switch up, the chain is the next control. (by the way, do you have a chain for the fan motor and another chain for the fan light?)
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thehairs
Member
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# Posted: 29 Dec 2016 09:24pm
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Smawgunner
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Smawgunner
Member
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# Posted: 29 Dec 2016 09:33pm
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Right, the way you suggested has both the fan and lights tied to both switches. I was hoping to bypass the wall switches from the fan pull chain if that was easier. that way I could keep the dimmer switch for the lights. But if not no big deal I'll go out and buy a new three-way switch and that should solve everything.
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 29 Dec 2016 10:00pm - Edited by: DaveBell
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Quoting: Smawgunner Right, the way you suggested has both the fan and lights tied to both switches.
Ideally, you could add another hot black wire to the fan electrical box (FROM the Supply side of switch one) for just the fan and use the chain to control the fan. Then move the current 3-way black wire in the box to the light and use the dimmer for just the light, in a 3-way control. Just make sure to use the same source so you don't create a 220V situation. (electrician is recommended)
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 29 Dec 2016 10:02pm - Edited by: DaveBell
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The red wire and the banded white wire provide two paths for power and create the switching logic for the 3-way switch connections. (treat the blue wire in the picture below as the banded white wire)
SW1 Off, SW2 Off, power is available from the first switch through the WHITE wire to the second switch.
SW1 On, SW2 On, power is available from the first switch through the RED wire to the second switch.
But neither turn on the light.
SW1 On, SW2 Off or SW1 Off , SW2 On and the supply circuit is connected to the light. Or in your case to the chain switch in the body of the fan.
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sparky30_06
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# Posted: 30 Dec 2016 06:46am
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when you replace the dimmer switch with a regular switch pay very close attention to the wires before you remove them from the old switch. on a three way switch you have one common & 2 travelers. traveler contacts must always goto travelers. so when you look at the switch two of the wires or screws should be the same color (travelers) and one should be a different color (common). I handled a lot of homeowner service calls cause the new switch wasn't installed correctly and once you unhook it the average person has a hard time reconnecting it correctly.
As for the absence of the ground being a fire hazard I will strongly disagree. It's a shock hazard. Incorrect sized breakers and overloaded wires are a fire hazard. The ground wire is a secondary path for current to flow back to the source if a hot wire comes in contact with the outer casing of an appliance or box.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 30 Dec 2016 08:56am
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Quoting: Smawgunner Right, the way you suggested has both the fan and lights tied to both switches. I was hoping to bypass the wall switches from the fan pull chain if that was easier. that way I could keep the dimmer switch for the lights. But if not no big deal I'll go out and buy a new three-way switch and that should solve everything.
You can do it, but you have to pull in another wire for power. If you go to all thta trouble, add a second switch to run the fan only, and then you can run your 3 way switches for the light.
It is legal (code) to have a black wire nutted to the white the way yours was wired, it does need the black tape on the white wire though and it looks liek from your diagram, it is.
Righjt now, you will only be able to turn the light/fan on with one switch, then isolate them using the pul lchains, ie light on, fan off or visa versa or both on etc.
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Mike 870
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# Posted: 31 Dec 2016 04:50pm
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Figure it out yet? The black connected to the white was probably used as a traveller. Get a book and look at the different ways to wite 3 way switches. You have to figure out where that fixture is in the circuit beginning, middle or end and you will know how to wire it. Then use a tester on the wires with someone throwing switches for you and you should be able to figure out what goes where. The blue wire is likely a hot and there is a shared neutral on the fixture. And yea get rid of the dimmer.
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