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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2016 08:26pm - Edited by: DaveBell
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I need to plan on putting gravel down on my bare dirt driveway and spots long a dirt road. How thick, layers, and what size? As an experiment last year, I took a backhoe with some two inch rock from my property and put it in a mud hole. It sank out of sight after a few months. Anyone have experience with graveling difficult areas?
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2016 08:30pm
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You want a mix of larger rock (crushed) down to smaller rock, I mean down to sand and everything in between. We call it 1" minus, smaller stuff is 5/8 minus. It doesn't migrate, will pack in tight and hold its position. Some areas will settle, and you will have to add more later. Create a crown in the middle, also some areas where water can run to the side on downhill sections to prevent too much water rushing down and washing it out.
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2016 08:53pm
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The pro's would use a fabric base , works like a miracle " with half the stone " in wet spots , HD has it
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RichInTheUSA
Member
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2016 09:05pm
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What you want is likely something called "Crush n run".
I'm in the same boat with my roads, and looking to put 1x2 crush n run down.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2016 10:22pm
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Generally when gravelling a road for the first time, they first put down a base layer of larger rock, here they call it "threes and finer" meaning it's been sifted for no more than 3 inches. Then a layer of 1 or 3/4 on top. If you have very soft soil conditions I'd consult with a local backhoe/ grader operator who can tell you what works best in that type of soil.
There are different types of rock as well. Here we have both a red volcanic rock and a harder granite or serpentine. The red volcanic is pretty but softer and with time breaks down and no longer has the gravel sizes in it that make the surface hold together. Harder is better in general.
Never use rounded rock, only sharp gravel. Rounded doesn't lock together and will stay loose.
Do you have a tractor? Grading the road before gravelling is best so the result is smooth. The best grading tool for a small tractor is a grading scraper. A box scraper is okay but not really made to do finish grading, it's a dirt mover. Here's a link to a video of a grading scraper in action:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OIed2lzfQ-g
It's a promo video and I have no monetary connection to them. There are other grading scraper videos on YouTube that are fun to watch. A grading scraper will level out the dirt giving an even surface for the rock layers.
Hope this helps
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Julie2Oregon
Member
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# Posted: 29 Feb 2016 12:09am
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toyota_mdt_tech
Just as a matter of course, is it a good idea to "crown" the gravel and provide any sort of drainage ditches on each side? Or will that encourage the gravel to wash away, too?
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RichInTheUSA
Member
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# Posted: 29 Feb 2016 06:56am
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Julie, the excavator I use says to create a crown... and ditches to do exactly what you say.
They also suggest cross cuts, if the road is sloped side to side.
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Don_P
Member
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# Posted: 29 Feb 2016 07:28am
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Shedding water off the road is really what is important. On a road through relatively level ground crowning does this well. Sloping the road from side to side is another way. One rule of thumb, when you get off the tractor and stand looking uphill on a road, there should be a diversion... swale, waterbar, etc up ahead of you at no more than eye level. Walk up to that point and you should see another water diversion uphill at no more than eye level. If the water runs down the road for more than that 5 or 6' of vertical drop it will have enough energy to start rilling the road. Gentle swales are easier to maintain than waterbars, just a gentle tip one way or another to shed the water.
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Julie2Oregon
Member
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# Posted: 29 Feb 2016 03:32pm
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RichInTheUSA and Don_P, thanks for the info!
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AK Seabee
Member
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# Posted: 29 Feb 2016 08:01pm
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Dave, a drainage ditch or swale on the hill side of the road should be added and maintained. The road should also be sloped to drain into the ditch on the hill side of the road. Draining across the road to the down hill side would eventually cause erosion and eat away at your road.
I would also use large rock for the ditch in steep areas and transition areas. The goal is to move the water away from the road but to do so in a controlled way that reduces or slows erosion.
Once the roadway is dry the mud will firm up and quit swallowing your gravel. Vegetation in the ditch or swale will slowdown theenergy of the water flow. It is a good thing as long as it slows the water without stopping the flow.
Your photo shows a swale on the uphill side with the exception of the corner. There it looks like water is entering the roadway and more than likelytbat is where you are having issues?
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Littlecooner
Member
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# Posted: 29 Feb 2016 08:49pm
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RichInTheUSA
Its called Crusher Run. That is the stuff that comes out of the second crusher. First crusher in a quarry reduces the "shot" rock to something about the size of a football, etc and then the second crusher breaks it down, reading for sizing and washing. This is the stuff as it comes from the crusher, will all the various sizes of rocks including dust. They run the rocks over screens to create the piles of different sizes, which are given numbers, like 4 or 5 or 7 or 57. 57 is a mix of 5's and 7's that is the most common aggregate in concrete mix.
Crusher run is cheaper at the quarry than the washed and graded stone and if it is limestone it will compact with water and tire pressure over time just like concrete. Most of the various other stones in crusher run will do the same. Water is the enemy and the crown in the middle on a flat road is to drain the water to the sides, to the drainage ditches, the water bars are to prevent long distance runs of surface water when it rains. Just get the water off the road as quick as possible. All paved roads in the US of A have a 2 % slope from the middle, ie, the crown. If you have soft spots, as mentioned above, larger rock and walk it into the mud. And yes, geotextile fabric between mother earth and the aggregate will prevent the aggregator from disappearing into the mud. Depends on your type of local rock, (limestone, quartsite, granite) and the base under it ( how soft is the natural soil) on thickness needed. Try 2-4 inches to start with. Those boys at the quarry that do this every day can "tie the chains" on the tail gate and dump, spread the rock as they dump it on the road and you would be surprised at exactly the thickness they can dump when you tell them what you want. With the good truck drivers, all that is needed is a little hand work with a rake to make the drive look professional.
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Don_P
Member
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2016 06:41am
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Geotextile works amazingly well, we've floated concrete trucks over areas where we had to have a dozer pulling them through. The downside is that it is easy to hook it later with a blade while grading the road.
Another rule of thumb, wheels begin to hop at about 11%, a bit less in corners as differentials are working. If you can stay below that it helps prevent washboarding.
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RichInTheUSA
Member
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2016 07:09am
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Thanks Littlecooner... Indeed, I did have the name of it wrong. Sometimes the truck driver I use is a little hard to understand with the chaw in his mouth. Nothing wrong with chaw... just saying I had a hard time understanding what he was saying. 
I have witnessed incredible skill at the truck drivers being able to put down gravel with accuracy.
We've used #57 in the past (and I also didn't know it was a mix of #5 and #7's)... but it typically runs $13.50/ton.
The 1x2 aggregate Crusher Run... will run us $8.50/ton.
I hear crushed slate can be as low as $4/ton, but it's hard to find in this area.
Thanks again for the corrections and the good information!
Rich
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Littlecooner
Member
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2016 10:50am
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Wow, big difference in the price it takes to wash and grade out the different sizes. Also what has not been added here is the fact that you are dealing in purchasing aggregate in quantities of "truck load". Measure the length of the drive way, then use the fact that the spread gravel will be 8 foot wide, check with the quarry on size (cubic yards) of the delivery truck and calculate the volume to cover the drive. this way, you tell the driver how thick so you purchase a uniform thickness over the length of the drive way. Length x 8 foot wide x thickness = volume.
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2016 03:40pm
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How many tons will a dump truck hold?
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NorthRick
Member
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2016 04:17pm
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Typical end-dumps can hold 10 to 12 cubic yards. At 1.5 tons per yard, you are looking at 15 to 18 tons. Side dumps can carry 20 yards, or 30 tons.
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RichInTheUSA
Member
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2016 06:49pm
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Dave, my experience is anywhere from 12 to 20 tons... depending on the size of the truck.
My road is about 1 mile long, not a lot of overhead space... and trucks need to go over "home made" a concrete bridge. I tend to stay on the small side.
The local quarry is close by... so I typically pay $60 per load for delivery.
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2016 08:59pm
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Thanks to everyone who responded. This thread is a concise reference on road and gravel techniques. My driveway could be used as a ski slope. I will be incorporating all of these ideas and solutions.
-Dave
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 11:24am
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I built a 1000' road on soft farm soil. Doing research I found a study done by a mid-west university (minnesota?). anyway, here's their formula
remove green/live top layer (I removed 6" turf)
then
Geotextile + 3-4" layer 3" crushed + 1.5" road topper
= 30 year road
Mine's at 5 years and it's in the same condition as new.
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Julie2Oregon
Member
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 07:24pm
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Littlecooner
I really appreciate the "Crusher Run" info. There is actually a working quarry on the mountain where I'll be living and they deliver for free. That's all well and good but I have no knowledge of gravel or rock types and didn't know what I would want delivered for my driveway or what to discuss with them. Now I do. Thank you!
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Julie2Oregon
Member
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 07:28pm
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Oh, and I had to laugh. My road and land are quite level. I was asking the guy I bought the land from about hiring a company to do some clearing and he said, "Well, you could. But if you just want a bit of work done, I can give you the number for 2 fat guys and a Cat who do a great job for a lot less money." Hahahahaha, sounds good to me!
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Littlecooner
Member
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# Posted: 4 Mar 2016 11:28am
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Cat is probably slang for Caterpillar or a bulldozer. Just like Xerox became slang for any copy machine, "Cat" is used by a lot of people for reference to a bullozer.
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Mountain Madness
Member
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# Posted: 4 Mar 2016 04:57pm
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Every spring during snow run off I had a pond that developed in my driveway, every year for the last nine years. Every thing I put into the pond area disappeared unit I went and got what they locally call "Pit Run". Probably same thing as crusher run, now no more problems.
I built a large hydraulic dump trailer to move the material on the cheap. I think I paid $6.00 or less a ton from the local quarry, approx 3 tons to a yard and hauled 9+ ton a trip. One thing I learned is rock does not go far and it is very heavy.
Hard on the pick up but saved a lot over having a truck and pup deliver. I wore out a set of BFG AT2's in 6,000 miles between rocking my driveway and building my cabin. To BFG's credit they supplied me with a new set of tires.
Some people set their dump beds up to only drop gravel on the part of the driveway the tires ride on. This might save you on quite a few tons of rock after you get your base done.
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