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jimmy2oo3
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2016 09:28am
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Hi, I've been thinking about the possibility of building a log barn. The barn would be used as a small equipment garage--just enough room to pull a tractor in and store my tools. I want just a gravel pad for the base, but am unsure how it would work using logs. Do you just lay the logs directly on the gravel? I would be using pine logs and would treat them if necessary. I live in upstate NY where the winters get pretty bad. Anyone have any thoughts?
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2016 11:17am
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I'd build the gravel up higher than adjacent grade to provide for drainage, and then put a 3x6 or 3x8 PT sill on the gravel to put the logs on. Not the greatest foundation, but if it's just a small storage building that would be good enough for me.
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hueyjazz
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2016 12:04pm
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I also have a cabin in upstate by Swain, NY. My shed is pretty close to what your a doing except it's has a floor and sits on three 8" x 8" pressure treated timbers. I first laid down geotec fabric as a vapor barrier. I built up the sidewalls of the gravel base with landscape timbers and then filled it with compacted gravel. I've been happy with the results.
The main problem was the dump truck of gravel I needed would go down a short but steep hill near my cabin so I had to shovel and trailer it back a load at a time.
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pash
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2016 12:48pm
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Depending on your size you could also just level blocks into the gravel and put your logs across them. Using the PT like bldginsp suggested you could create a little gap to keep the lumber off the ground. This would be easy to level and re-level if it shifted. Just slide a trim board inside or out to keep the gravel in, and if it rots you only have to replace 1 board all the way around.
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AK Seabee
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2016 10:24pm
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A friend of mine constructed a green house similar to what you are proposing. He built the base out of used railroad timbers. I saw about a third of the timber exposed above the D1. I dont know if there were additional courses below grade.
Good Luck!
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leonk
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2016 11:22pm
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Rail ties are soaked in creosote (or used to) and I'd never use them in construction.
Putting logs on gravel will work, but the bottom logs will rot relatively fast, not just from the contact with the ground, which will be minimal, but from the melting snow and splashing rain etc.
For that very reason, bottom logs were replaced once in while in log houses built on the ground level.
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AK Seabee
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2016 01:05am - Edited by: AK Seabee
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Any wood placed in direct contact with the ground will eventually rot. Quicker in warm climates and a bit slower in cold climates. If you choose to use wood it must be treated. Like it or not creosote is a great preservative. All commercial preservatives have draw backs as well as benefits.
For a green house, out house, or shed/shop foundation creosote timbers work. In a cabin or home definately not.
Personally I do not use wood with direct ground contact. I prefer concrete, its almost always maintenance free. Some friends do use wood and it works great for them. They know the lifespan is short 15-25 years and they are ok with it. Again, their choice not mine but I am not the type to judge.
edited to correct spelling error. small keys on tablets are fun.......
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2016 08:45am
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One problem with used rail timbers is that they are, well, used. The railroad removed them because they are through most of their usable life. So how long are they going to last?
Also, I just don't want to bring that much poison onto my property. I do, however, dip rafter ends in copper preservative.
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Don_P
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2016 08:59am - Edited by: Don_P
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For an outbuilding I've got no problem with creosote or CCA or ACQ... they are all toxins. These are pressure treatments, none of these are dips, which don't really penetrate much. Self dip or paint type "treating" is nowhere near as effective as pressure treatment. Usually by the time you buy a used tie most of the good stuff is gone and rot has begun, that's why they are replacing them. They have been one of the culprits in moving drywood termites around the deep south although they cannot survive in northern climates. If it is built on treated that will help with rot, very large overhangs will help as well if it is going to be close to grade.
Supporting a cabin while replacing the lower rows of logs isn't much fun, it takes me longer than building a new building.
The gravel should be over a natural mound, by which I mean that gravel will not eliminate a moisture problem under you. the site should drain well to begin with. If the gravel is as deep as frost depth or if it is in trenches to frost depth that drain then there is no frost heave potential. Geotextiles allow bulk water to pass but stop soil and mud, they keep the gravel clean and freely draining, they are not vapor retarders at all. When you pour the slab inside the treated base, then a poly vapor barrier on top of the gravel would be a good idea.
Oh, a little FYI. "Landscape timbers", those rounded edged, flat on top and bottom green timbers sold at home despots etc are not really treated, read the back of the tag. This is a use for peeler cores, the small remains of the log they mount on a veneer lathe to make plywood veneers. Since the core is heartwood and heartwood is too full of natural extractives to accept treatment, the green is really just a surface coating. They generally say something like "treated to refusal"... it refused treatment immediately.
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