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kid A
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# Posted: 22 Jun 2015 02:05pm
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Hi everyone - plain and simple: first time cabin owner, I can't decide whether to buy some land on a lake and build over time, or buy the whole shebang (cabin and land) and do renovations as I go.
Some of the builds I've seen on here make me want to just buy some land and build. I love to work with my hands, and I love the idea of leaving something for my kids and grandkids that grandpa built, ya know? (I'm 31, btw, no kids yet but soon).
I guess I'm afraid of buying an older place and have it take a shit on me, or I miss something upon inspection, etc. But it would be nice to just buy it and be able to live there/take advantage of it right away.
Anyone else go through this thought process? What did you decide?
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PA_Bound
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# Posted: 22 Jun 2015 02:16pm
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My initial idea was to buy something already built- that we could immediately utilize. Although I ended up buying the land and starting construction a few years later, I still wish that had worked out for me. But it seemed that the cabins that I found in the area I wanted, that were for sale, were in pretty bad shape. So for me it was easier to start from scratch then renovate.
When I originally bought the land and started building I was planning for my daughter to be able to enjoy it (she was around 12 when I started building). But life threw some unexpected curve balls (health issues), and the building has taken much longer than I expected. And while my daughter (now almost 17) still helps with the building when she can, and we have had some good times together in the process, I've come to realize I'm likely building the cabin now for her (future) kids to enjoy. But that may be okay, too.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 22 Jun 2015 07:56pm
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I'm building my first "from the ground up" cabin right now. I have renovated newer, old (1876) and built New Modular's in a factory for a while. I grew up in a circa 1830's Farm which had never ending renovations (we bought it with no indoor "water works" big woodstove & oil space heaters... Insulation was "air space" (if you could call it that).
The current project started as looking for something existing that I could shack in, while building something interesting. We considered COB, Stone (Slip-formed) & Cordwood / Stackwall, Post & Beam and really wanted to go Stone & Cordwood.
Health Override kicked in and so we are now building 2x6 on heated Frost Protected Slab. We cleared the land (clearings were scrub) put in the driveway, Build pad, Sea Can pad after having 4' of organics excavated & replaced with Pit Run which was intensively packed. We just put down the concrete & headed upwards...
Pro's... Being able to design something yourself to suit your needs is a biggy. CON is that you REALLY have to think it out and be realistic, realizing that today's needs are not necessarily tomorrows needs ! In my case health make us change the plan to have a bedroom on main floor (stairs & ladders are not in my future very soon)
Pro: Doing it yourself & contracting the must's gives a great satisfaction _AND_ if you mess up, there's no one that needs to be educated in Drunken Sailor Talk. Just whack self on head and do it over without ever repeating that again.
Cons: Costs are CLIMBING FAST and even the past year has seen significant increases in tools & materials. Gotta move quickly & efficiently and be prepared to shop with a vengeance... Looking at a budget vapourizing is disconcerting !
PRO: Around here, Owner Designed & Built is much easier to get through with building inspectors & "The Provincial Code". They do prefer that in less than 1000 square feet, over 1K and they start getting twitchy if there is anything fanciful.
LESSONS LEARNED DEPT:
One thing I will impart regarding buying old and renovating... It CAN be a great deal of fun, not only the discovery process but seeing how things were ingeniously done long ago... Ohhh and the many lost treasures one finds... (that is a whole article on itself) The BAD Part is, there is nothing square, inconsistent measurements and level Horizontal / Vertical is a dream.... HINT: Much easier to use Rough Cut lumber and cut to match existing wood works instead of trying to make do with retail lumber... There was no 1-1/2x3-1/3 in 1900 ! It WAS 2"x4" and then some ! On a RENO though, I have to be honest... if you budget 50K to reno, expect that will be realistically 75-100K.
Building from scratch is better, can be more reasonable on budget and you can do things in stages as time & bux afford it. 20% slush fund on side for overages is WISE. Don't get carried away with "the dream" and do self grounding & sanity checks to see if your getting carried away (that is so easy to do).
IF you get a big enough chunk of land, drop a nice Bunkie on it and a screen room (like a florida room) and use it for a year while looking at the land, what it does through the seasons and try to picture your Cabin in various places / positions... Draw it out, talk it over and once you think you got it... measure it, walk it, stake it out and see if it can work for you today, tomorrow & in 10 years from now.
I would suggest, that if you intend to be living "out there" then you should be considering being able to be in it by 2020. A lot of us (Ex Mil, etc) are working at being self reliant by then. That's all I'll say on this point.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 22 Jun 2015 09:01pm
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I think the most cost effective thing to do is buy a cabin that is old and needs a little work but not too much. New costs a lot, old and in bad condition costs a lot too, and is a PITA. Old but in reparable condition is old enough that you can bargain the price down but won't break the bank with repair costs. Buyer beware.
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davestreck
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# Posted: 22 Jun 2015 09:21pm
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Quoting: Steve_S IF you get a big enough chunk of land, drop a nice Bunkie on it and a screen room (like a florida room) and use it for a year while looking at the land, what it does through the seasons and try to picture your Cabin in various places / positions... Draw it out, talk it over and once you think you got it... measure it, walk it, stake it out and see if it can work for you today, tomorrow & in 10 years from now.
That's it in a nutshell. I couldn't have put it better myself.
The key elements of a cabin are location, orientation and design. We spent 3 years camping on our property before we figured it out. Time well spent!
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w8n4rut
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# Posted: 23 Jun 2015 06:31am
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Having been a construction contractor my whole life that's a no-brainer....Build New!
You're young. You can pick the perfect chunk of land...the perfect spot on that land....and build it right from the ground up and in most cases be money ahead in the long run.
In your septic thread you say you're from Wisconsin. I'm a licensed contractor in Wisconsin and deal with lake property all the time. Just make sure you do your home work before you buy. Lake property is highly regulated in most of the state. Make sure you talk to zoning in the county you are buying to confirm you can build what you want before you buy.
Good luck on your build!
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deryk
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# Posted: 23 Jun 2015 11:05am
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having experience in restorations of boats and almost a trailer...I would rather build it new then rip it apart and rebuild it. Any small cabin would be cheaper to build from scratch then rip it a part and gut and rebuild.
Now if I was doing it because the land and cabin was cheap enough and had an existing septic and well I would consider it depending the condition and how the town was... if the system is old and you want to knock the cabin down to rebuild it the town might say time for a new septic system.
If you build it yourself you know what materials you used and the quality that went into it. Too often old places have a certain amount of "jury rigging" done to it and it could be dangerous (wiring).
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kid A
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# Posted: 23 Jun 2015 03:41pm
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So it sounds like the resounding advice is to buy land, set up an outfitter tent or canvas tent, scope it out for optimal site, and build it.
Obviously, first research county regs before buying.
I have a follow up question for you all: how much land is "enough" for that wilderness feel? I see some 2 acre plots on lakes, and then you look at the map view and it looks like there's a neighbor right on top of you. I'd love to hear your "space" stories or what you would consider enough.
(obviously I'd love to have 40 acres on a lake, but my budget is about $100k in Central/Northern WI (think Tomahawk or Rhinelander) and I'm not going to get 40 acres on a lake).
Thanks so much everyone!
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JJHess
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# Posted: 23 Jun 2015 05:38pm
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We have almost 100 acres in the mountains of North Central PA. We border State Game Lands to the north and State Forest to the east. Literally thousands of acres of land we can access. You certainly get the wilderness feel, especially on clear cloudless nights.
In the summer months if you have a lot of vegetation around, a 2 acre plot may seem isolated. As soon as the leaves drop it's a different story. If you are going to be using the property mostly in the summer months and you have trees, 2 acres may be fine. If you like your privacy in the winter, then you'll want more land, 5 acres minimum.
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rockies
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# Posted: 23 Jun 2015 06:24pm
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AAAH! The old cabin that needs "just a little bit of work". The surfaces always need just a bit of work (painting, scrubbing, etc) and then you notice the little bit of rot, which causes you to open up a bit of wall and discover that the beams are almost gone, and the mice has insulated the walls with their nests. Once you start opening up walls (or god forbid the roof) to the elements you're under the gun to enclose it again before the next summer storm.
The nice thing about going new is that everything is up to code, it's all as straight as you can get it, and you can build exactly what you want.
I would suggest moving a small trailer out there during the build so that you have a place where you can oversee everything and prevent any theft.
I am using some design software called "Chief Architect" (free trial download online) that calculates every last stick of wood that's needed for my plan. This way I can precut every board I need before I even go out to the site. I just assemble the studs into bundles labeled "west wall", south wall" etc and then put them together out there.
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PatrickH
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# Posted: 23 Jun 2015 09:11pm
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The memories you get from building your place are truly priceless,the first time my wife came up to see the place and she cried.the first time the kids slept in the place to building with my friends and family. The jaw dropping expressions you get when you show people pictures of what you've been doing with your spare time.No one is selling those things for any price. I have a friend who shows his teenage son pictures of what I have done to inspire him to learn a trade and to show him what he might think is impossible ,is completely possible.You will inspire people! No question about it.
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FishSeeker
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# Posted: 24 Jun 2015 01:06am
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Unfortunately I'm not the builder guy kind of type. My wife and I bought our first lot in 2012 and we put a 28' trailer on it and were going to stay in that for a couple years until we figured out where to put a cabin on. Then last year the lot next door went up for sale. It was a gorgeous 1000 sf cabin that had just been remodeled so we decided to to buy it and now I am set.
Our lots are both on the river so I could never get a permit for septic and my cabin w/septic is grandfathered in so we're set. So we now have a year round cabin, 2 lots on about 3/4 acre on a river and a creek. It's our little piece of heaven. I may have paid for it but I don't have to do any work except maintaining it. I know it's a different choice for everyone but for me it made sense for someone else to do the work.
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toofewweekends
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# Posted: 24 Jun 2015 01:57am
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We looked at buying already build, and were not impressed. Then nearly bought land, and it fell thru. Then found the right place. Very liveable, 10 years old, mostly finished. That let us fix up the interior over a couple of years to our liking, but the basics were there from Day One. Bought a vacant lot next to us, mainly as a defensive measure -- didn't want to look at somebody else's mess
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Wilbour
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# Posted: 24 Jun 2015 07:05am
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I know this argument has been made before but generally speaking, building from the ground up is definitely the way to go. Unless you find some land in an area where you cannot build but can repair. My land has new restrictions but I was able to get the go ahead to repair the dilapidated structure.
It's been a tough ride doing almost all the work myself but honestly, having my dad over last weekend and he gave me the thumbs up!
Good enough for me!
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 24 Jun 2015 08:19am
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Quoting: kid A I have a follow up question for you all: how much land is "enough" for that wilderness feel?
I had the same desire when looking for land. I ended up with 5 beautiful acres 2 miles from a small town and close to other houses and a highway. Not exactly 'wilderness'. In retrospect though, I'm fine with being in what is essentially a 'suburban neighborhood' or 'the wildland urban interface'. I'm not in the wilderness, but if I was, I'd be many miles from the closest store. And having neighbors is sometimes distracting, but useful in other ways. My closest neighbor drives thru my place every day, which deters thieves. He also has a trencher which has helped me a lot. Try getting a machine out into 'the wilderness'.
But on my five acres when I wake up in the morning it's just me and the birds. Cows in the distance and I can hear the highway, but I step out doors and it's just me and trees, up on the hill, apart from the valley. That's enough.
I don't need wilderness, but I do want 'elbow room'.
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 24 Jun 2015 08:20am
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my southern camp --I built from the ground up/brand new...love it so much!!!
my Maine camp I bought from a estate where the former owner/builder started and passed away right after it was framed up and very partly finished. NOT THE WAY I WISH I BOUGHT IT....but being so far away I needed a place I could "camp so speak while I worked on it" so I have power run and had it for 3 years. Did a lot of work on it. Not what I would have built and its going on the market. Which my friend the realtor has someone interested in it...I said GREAT and it's not even on the market yet.
and now I wonder how many "camps does a man need anyway"..lol
I built my house 18 years ago...love being the first person to spend the night in something "I BUILT!!!{...so try to build if ya can.
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smallworks
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# Posted: 30 Jun 2015 12:09am
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Quoting: Steve_S Pro: Doing it yourself & contracting the must's gives a great satisfaction _AND_ if you mess up, there's no one that needs to be educated in Drunken Sailor Talk. Just whack self on head and do it over without ever repeating that again.
right!
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 30 Jun 2015 08:33pm
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I would not of been against buying an already built unit if it fit my needs, I liked it and the quality was to my standards. But I am too picky, so usually other peoples idea of nice is no where near mine.
I started from scratch, never built anything other than a few toolsheds in the past, never pulled a permit.
So there was some schooling along the way. And I can say I am glad I did it the exact way I did. Permitting was easy, building was fun, customizing fun too, not I am into the playing stage with accessorizing and signage to keep with our forest service theme, IE look, colors etc.
It was a lot of fun, great learning experience and the pride when looking at my build and the nice compliments I get when others see it first hand really makes a auto technician by trade feel pretty good. 
Not to mention, I have purchased all the tools to become a professional builder (guys, great excuse to load up on nice power-tools, don't blow this great opportunity) and I mean, I loaded up.
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kid A
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# Posted: 2 Jul 2015 08:45am
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Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech Not to mention, I have purchased all the tools to become a professional builder (guys, great excuse to load up on nice power-tools, don't blow this great opportunity) and I mean, I loaded up.
Haha, love it. Any excuse for new power-tools, I'm all over that.
Thanks for all the info everyone! I think I'll buy a little piece of heaven and go from there.
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moregon
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# Posted: 18 Jul 2015 11:21am
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I thought about something already built but I couldn't find anything far out enough without people living right on top of me! I really don't want to wake up to the sound of other people in fact I don't even want to SEE other people.
So....I ended up buying 10acres in a really remote part of Oregon. When I go up to camp all I see is an occasional smoke stack pretty far off so there are folks out there somewhere.
I am not a builder/contractor by any means so I found a local cabin building company that will put up a little 12x16 cabin w/ loft. Going up this year!! So friggen excited!!!
I'll go up when they are constructing and "help" as much as they'll let me, which will probably consist of cleaning up and being a gopher
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Wilbour
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# Posted: 18 Jul 2015 06:44pm
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Moregon your 12 x 16 sounds enormous compared to my 10 x 16 
You have to keep us posted.
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moregon
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# Posted: 18 Jul 2015 07:17pm
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Really Wilbour? I'll be living in it full-time eventually so I'm hoping I don't go bat shit cray in it. If you notice randon, nutty posts then know, the insanity has begun 
Anyhow......it will have a sleeping loft and potty will be outside so main room will be kitchen and living space. Just big enough for me and no-one else! Peace and quiet....finally....can't wait. )
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deryk
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# Posted: 19 Jul 2015 06:21pm
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I lived for several years on a Watkin's 27' Sailboat...The inner cabin was 14' long and the width varied from about 3' wide at the locker for the anchor chain right at the bow, to about 9.5' in the back 3rd of the boat. Snug but I lived in from sweltering summer heat to single digit winter nights. 12x16 with a sleeping loft would be a palace lol.
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moregon
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# Posted: 19 Jul 2015 06:38pm
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You are right deryk. Its gonna be awesome. I can always add on later. I'm really just looking forward to realizing my dream. It's been a long time coming........whoopppiiieee
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Grandma Off Grid
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# Posted: 20 Jul 2015 01:45am - Edited by: Grandma Off Grid
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i am building a small cabin with attached greenhouse. i already had the basic structure on my land. steel roof and 2 walls. heavy beams. and i have saved up a bunch of building materials so only 20$ out of pocket right now and i am halfway done. i dont have much building experience and am a 51 y/o girl. but when i get stumped, i sit in my chair in front of it. meditate. and the answers come. so far so good.
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Grandma Off Grid
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# Posted: 20 Jul 2015 01:51am
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it looks much better than that now. boards trimmed, etc. some painting done. gutters repaired and painted. more done but have to take more pics.
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