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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 4 Aug 2014 03:21pm - Edited by: KinAlberta
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Has anyone made their own power poles out of pressure treated 2x6s or used pipe?
We currently have a haphazard arrangement with utility power going to a garage and from there zig-zagging along small power poles to our main cabin then to an old power shed then to our second cabin.
I could have someone come in and put in new proper poles but I understand that that could cost quite a bit. So, I have some old '25-30' sections of drill stem laying around and thought I could create triangles (maybe 2' apart for improved stability) out of them or use just one per location but heavily concrete them into the ground and then hang wire from them, using...??? Wooden crossbars maybe?
Or, I could just laminate poles out of 2x6s, maybe with a pivoting base to raise and lower the upper portion.*
* Similar to this: We have a bird feeder on a tall 4x4 that fits between three 4x4s going into the ground. Two outside 4x4s form a bracket for the centre post. The third one is just a spacer. All three go into the ground a couple feet. One bolt at the top serves as a pivot and the other locks the upper pole vertical when the birdhouse is raised.) this set up allows cleaning but I could do the same to allow me to build a fairly tall pole and then boost it into verticals position.
Like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/pressure-treated-GROUND-SOCKET-for-PURPLE-MARTIN-BIRD-HOUSE-s wivel-pole-system-/200907507544
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 4 Aug 2014 03:37pm
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Have you considered underground? Conduit is not terribly expensive, and the cost of renting a trencher might be less than all this wood you are suggesting. Underground is hard work, but the result is permanent and looks much better.
What are the distances of your wire runs? Rocky soil?
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 4 Aug 2014 04:38pm
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I was also going to suggest underground. Much cleaner looking.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 4 Aug 2014 08:43pm
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Underground is the way to go. Rent a trencher and go 18" deep. Also buy some electrical service marking ribbon and bury that in the trench about 6" or so above the electrical.
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creeky
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# Posted: 4 Aug 2014 08:52pm
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I dug trenches for my electrical last year. It's a bit of work but once the grass grows in. Pretty nice.
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creeky
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# Posted: 4 Aug 2014 08:59pm
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In Ontario code is 24" and 36" for traffic (600/900 mm). If I remember correctly. That's what I dug anyway.
You can reduce that depth with pressure treated wood etc. protection above the cable/raceway.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 4 Aug 2014 10:34pm
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National Elec Code in US calls for 24" in roads, 18" in residential driveways, less under concrete.
But the OP has yet to tell us the distances and soil conditions being dealt with. Trenching has its limitations. My neighbor has a 60 horsepower diesel trencher and he cut 750 feet or more of trench for me in a few days. Without him I'd have had a much more difficult time.
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neb
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# Posted: 4 Aug 2014 11:22pm
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If put in PVC there is no depth limit. Just saying if in conduit it can lay on top of ground So if you didn't want to have a deep trench you could go that route. If the wire is on the load side of your meter breakers there really isn't any clearance limits you would have to follow. The min. in direct burial is 18".
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2014 02:02am - Edited by: KinAlberta
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Combined, the distances could be about 700 ft. all under "traffic" area unless I started to cut very close to the roots of mature spruce, elm, aspen, etc. and soil is clay interspersed with 1'-4+' stones below the surface.
This might be a great way to go and forever eliminate the tree fall risk. One of our lines is down now from a tree snapping off in a storm last winter.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2014 01:54pm - Edited by: bldginsp
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When I did my underground work I was cursing, spitting, and several other expressions of dislike that you don't want to hear. It's the worst work for sure. I still remember being in a trench wrestling a rock too big for me alone and thinking, 'I could be in Hawaii, but I spend my vacations like this?' But anyway, now that its over, I'm so glad I did it. I put in poly water lines and numerous elec conduits so now I'm all set up. Quite a relief.
700 ft in clay soil with rocks no larger than 4" would be a relatively easy trench operation, though somewhat long time behind the trencher, doable with the rental units. Would be harder if the clay soil was dry and hard, but that's only in the southwest.
neb- I think you're not quite on with burial for pvc conduit. It needs to go underground, not on top or close to the surface, unless under concrete with no vehicles. Check out NEC 300.5
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Austin351
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2014 04:34pm
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Quoting: neb If put in PVC there is no depth limit. Just saying if in conduit it can lay on top of ground So if you didn't want to have a deep trench you could go that route. If the wire is on the load side of your meter breakers there really isn't any clearance limits you would have to follow. The min. in direct burial is 18".
Neb - Believe you meant to say RGS (rigid galvanized steel) pipe. PVC still has depth restrictions (at least in my state). 
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neb
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2014 05:11pm - Edited by: neb
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Quoting: bldginsp neb- I think you're not quite on with burial for pvc conduit. It needs to go underground, not on top or close to the surface, unless under concrete with no vehicles. Check out NEC 300.5
Yes my mistake ridged can be used and be on top of ground. Sorry about that. I have seen it here though where rated plastic continues pipe is used and it makes code and must satisfy electrical inspector. We have it all over here on sites. It is all URD wire in a heavy rated gage pipe and it lays on the ground.
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creeky
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2014 05:17pm
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City of Lethbridge: NMWU or USEB cable for direct earth burial (2 feet deep)
looks like alberta leaves it up to individual townships... may be best to call your building dept?
I used a small backhoe to do my 250 or so feet of cable from the solar shed. It was pretty fun. There was a line of solid clay at 2 feet, so no problem knowing where to stop digging and the one 3' section was only 20 feet wide (traffic lane).
Did not see one rock. It was all loamy clay. Bonus. As last summer was nothing but wet weather... perfect for digging. I bent my front end loader on dry hard clay digging a pond the year previous. I'd think twice before trenching in dry clay.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2014 06:14pm
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I guess regulations vary from place to place regarding rigid conduit burial depth. The NEC says 24" for roads and 18" for driveways, just like pvc. But evidently it is accepted at less elsewhere.
Best to check with your local building dept. before you start. In my area, they didn't even want to see the conduit burial or include it in a permit, except where it entered the footing of a permitted building.
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neb
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2014 06:32pm
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What does code say for USE wire about the fourth wire. Here I see where almost all services have to have quad and they seem to use it for most dwellings no mater if it's a trailer or home. Does any know what the NEC says?
One other option would be a bore instead of digging an open trench. You can use PVC pipe or pull wire through bore when done. This method is used a lot in my area. It runs about 10$ a foot or less and would be worth checking on the price of what a bore would cost.
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2014 08:08pm - Edited by: KinAlberta
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Bldginsp, that was 4' rocks, not 4". They aren't common but in our maybe 2-3 mowed acre area I've moved two 3-4 foot long rocks that were exposed on the surface. Most rocks however would likely be under a foot in diameter.
So if a trencher hits a rock what's the easiest thing to do? Back up and go around it or dig it out?
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2014 08:32pm - Edited by: bldginsp
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Rocks are a big problem with trenching. With even a few large rocks your efforts will be greatly multiplied. The trenchers they rent are not very large and can't yank up a stone more than maybe 8-10" at best. So yes, you just have to go around or dig it up. If you go around, the conduit has to go around, which gets convoluted partly in terms of the angle fittings you have to use, but then it also complicates pulling wire through. There is a type of chain used on trenchers called a rock chain for use in rocky soils, you would want that.
I guess all you can do is try and see. If it fails you can go back to poles. If you go to poles, I'd suggest you get treated poles such as a utility uses, but shorter and less diameter. Any PT you get at the local yard will only last 10-15 years and then you will be replacing it, utility poles last a lot longer. I think they still sell creosote treated poles, nasty as they are.
Might be worth seeing if there is a contractor in the area with a large trencher. The big units work a lot faster and can rip up larger rocks, but not 4 footers, of course. Or, you could hire or rent a backhoe, which would take longer to do the dig but not a lot longer
Creeky's description of digging and encountering no rock, just loam and clay, makes me sick. When we trenched my place there were two short stretches like that where my neighbor's 60 horse Parsons trencher just coasted through. But most of the time he was slamming rocks, causing the unit to buck and jar, slowing him down. Imagine an 8 foot chain saw being plunged into the earth, hitting rocks that are quite well set into the surrounding soil and will only be loosened by repeatedly slamming the chain teeth against them- a pretty violent operation. He did, however, complete all trenches without having to go around any large immovable rocks. Cost me about a dollar a foot at $60 an hour.
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 14 Sep 2014 09:22pm - Edited by: KinAlberta
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Talked with an electrician yesterday and it looks like we may try the trenching route and remove unnecessary overhead lines to the outhouse (had lighting and I car heater), woodshed, etc.
These days we can just add LED lighting (maybe a solar powered exterior security motion light, where people the solar panel detached then put the light inside or some other cheap solution).
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