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sparrow
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# Posted: 1 Apr 2014 09:10pm
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I have a 16x36 cabin with a 16 foot ceiling. There is a 12x16 loft on each end. One of the lofts will be my bedroom so it will be enclosed. My question is concerning air conditioning options. I live in east Texas so a/c is a must. Are window units my only choice? Has anyone had any luck with anything else?
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 1 Apr 2014 09:45pm - Edited by: bldginsp
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The new split systems are an option, but they are very expensive. They have a single condenser unit outside, and one, two or more wall mounted evaporators inside. So you can make the separate bedroom it's own zone with a separate thermostat. These units also work as heat pumps in the winter, but that only works on milder climates.
Aside from that, you could instal a standard AC unit with an evaporator that is made to mount to a gas furnace and circulate air with ducting. Again you can zone off the bedroom. In a small cabin this might be a workable option because you would need very little ducting if you locate the furnace/blower in a central location. If all you want is AC and no furnace, you can just get a blower with zoning duct valves but no gas burning capability, which would cost a lot less.
All this assumes you are on grid since the electric demand is high, but you were talking window units to begin with.
Swamp coolers work reasonably well in dry climates, but I think east Texas is too humid, if memory serves.
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TheCabinCalls
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# Posted: 1 Apr 2014 10:09pm
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Look at a Mini split system. Window seems unwise to leave while you are away. They have portable units that don't sit in a window, but I am not a fan on how they exhaust and take up room.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 1 Apr 2014 11:23pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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Window units and portables have the lowest efficiency ratings. Depending on your power costs the cheaper window and portable types can cost you a lot more in the end. Then there is noise; window and portable units lead the pack in noise. The through the wall units as used in motels are as bad and not very efficient either.
Two hose portable units are better than one hose portables.
For a building with no heating ductwork the mini splits are the cats meow. Easy enough to install, only one hole about a 3" diameter through the wall for the piping and power. The larger units can do zones as was mentioned by bldginsp. They are whisper quiet compared to anything else. East TX should work fine with a reversible mini split, for heating. Some of the newer, better ones have SEER ratings that are in the mid 20's now! If power is costly and as it gets more expensive a higher SEER will save money. And mini splits can be run off grid. I can refer you to someone if you want more info on that. You can't do it on just a few golf cart batteries, but mini splits are about the only way to A/C off grid without running a generator.
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2014 07:10am
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at the southern cabin ,,,,I have 2 window units...one in the bedroom and one in the den/kitchen area,,,keeps the cabin nice and cool. And since it was 85 deg here yesterday....its about time to turn them ON!!!
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TheCabinCalls
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2014 10:49am
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Sparrow, is your place insulated really well?
Pros/Cons:
- Window is cheap upfront @ under $250
- Window can be noisy, awkward placement, burglar entry point
- portable unit is expensive for what it is @ $400. Basically a window air conditioner that you can set on the floor inside.
- still requires a window to get air and exhaust air. Is loud and not real efficient
- Mini Split units hoover around $1000 give or take $200. They are permanently installed outside your house and get piped through the wall. Then inside it connects to a wall/ceiling mount unit that will blow in cool air.
- They are quiet, very efficient, can work as heat, will be less cost to run and cool the place much better. You can also hook up multiple blower units (zones) inside.
If your place isn't insulated well then a window unit won't be great long term. It will run all the time and cost more to run. You can always buy a window unit and try it out...since they are so cheap.
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sparrow
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2014 11:40am
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Thank you for all the information! The cabin was already insulated when I bought it but I am going to add more as want to save on heating/cooling costs. I am on the grid but I'm hoping at some point to be able to use solar panels to get off grid. The mini splits that are mentioned aren't familiar to me. I will start doing research on them. Has anyone had better luck with one brand vs another, or are there not many to choose from?
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TheCabinCalls
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2014 01:51pm
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Here is an example of a single zone mini split: http://www.pexsupply.com/LG-LS093HE-10500-BTU-Ductless-Single-Zone-Mini-Split-Heat-Pu mp-Air-Conditioner
Not recommending this...just shows what one is.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2014 02:13pm
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Sparrow- I suggest you talk to an HVAC installer or someone familiar with these units before you choose one- you don't want to get one that is too large or too small. As far as quality goes, there are a lot of different brands now, many are from Japan and seem to be well made, but I don't have direct experience with comparing different brands. Let us know if you find a good quality/price comparison
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2014 06:33pm
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Please note the importance of the SEER rating. While it is true there is a large up front difference in price between a window unit and a mini split unit there is also a big difference between operating costs with a change from, say 9 to 13 SEER.
Window units are unregulated as to efficiency so many of the window units are still around a SEER of 9. The mini split that was referenced above has a SEER of 13. The minimum SEER rating is 13. A unit with a SEER of 13 should use approx. 30% less energy than a comparable sized unit rated 9.
That same website offers a comparable Panasonic with a SEER of 17 for approx the same cost. The 17 SEER should use approximately 47% less energy than the 9 SEER, or about 15% less than the SEER 13 unit. A few years use can save the extra cost of the higher efficiency unit and then be paying the user a dividend every subsequent year.
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Bzzzzzt
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2014 06:39pm
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I have zero experience in this subject but was intrigued by the mini split systems talked about and discovered that there are several on Amazon for less than the $1000 quoted above..... such as this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-Conditioner-Dehumidification-Ventilation-Installation/d p/B0095I9IAQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1396478272&sr=8-2&keywords=mini+split+air+conditi oner
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hueyjazz
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# Posted: 3 Apr 2014 12:17pm
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Mini Splits have dropped way down in price. The Japanese had a lock on the market but inside the last 5 years the cinese have jumped into the market. These really aren't that hard to install if you have some fairly basic HVAC knowledge. Inside the residence goes a blower unit. These are about 10" deep, 3' long and 10" high.
They have the blower, directional vanes, thermostat and controls. A lineset connect these to the condensor unit outside. They ship the unit precharged and pumped down. You buy the proper length lineset for your needs and hook that up between the blower unit and the condenser. You need to be able to evacuate the lineset but this is AC 101 for anyone with some experience.
Panasonic and Misibutsi use to have 99% of the market. I've gotten a few Chinese Daikins that have been running without issue for three years. I took one apart to find the major components were the same as my Japanese units.
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Borrego
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2014 05:19pm
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Quoting: MtnDon You can't do it on just a few golf cart batteries, but mini splits are about the only way to A/C off grid without running a generator.
Don - How many more batteries/panels would you estimate?
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Ann83
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# Posted: 13 Aug 2014 03:14am
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I agree with @bldginsp. In such situations, it is useful to ask specialists. They knows more about air conditioning. I recall one such company, it http://www.centrumklima.co.uk/, but I think that in the United States also easy to find a company that will help you in choice good solution.
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Malamute
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# Posted: 13 Aug 2014 11:19am
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I have a window unit in my cabin. I run it full blast for about 3 months straight. An older window unit I had used noticeably more power, about $15 more a month. It was about 15 years old. Some friends gave me a newer unit, it costs me about $15-$25/month to run, and consider it well worth that amount for the relief from the heat it provides. It can be 100 deg outside, and 66 inside. I LOVE my AC!
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hueyjazz
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# Posted: 13 Aug 2014 11:56am
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ASHRAE is pretty much the standard as far as setting the parameters for matching the conditions to the unit.
You can find many online calculators that can guide you how to size for your unit.
This is one that is quite simple.
http://www.northernac.com/newcalc.htm
It all comes down to the load and output and your comfort level on doing calculations. If you don't have the comfort level of installing and doing this yourself then I agree with the other of calling in a professional. Texas conditions are extreme. Mini splits are a very good way of going and many are set up as heat pumps so you can get heating if desired too. They are not difficult to install. The hardest part is evacuting the lines with a vacuum pump before you release the refrigerant. They come precharge.
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RiverCabin
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# Posted: 14 Aug 2014 10:41am
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The mini splits are nice but I'd say go with the window units. My cabin is well insulated and is a total of 480 sq. ft. indoor space and a 5000 btu $98.00 Walmart window unit has cooled it for nearly five years. If I go there this weekend and its stolen or it dies, I can ammortize that out that it cost me $20 a year for AC. In the summer we are at the cabin every weekend and I have yet to go over my minimum 100kwh on my electric bill so it cost me no more to run the unit. Before we went back on the grid my Honda EU2000i ran the AC unit just fine.
With you cabin and the high ceilings I would definitely install a second in the enclosed loft/bedroom.
Maybe I'm just cheap but I can stomach losing a $98 window unit. I would hate to go to my cabin and find that some trash had stolen my $600+ mini split unit. Don't kid yourself, it does happen. My neighbors lost their heat pump to thieves a couple years ago.
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PeterN
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# Posted: 7 Oct 2014 03:55am - Edited by: PeterN
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My post is not so much associated with air-conditioning, which in ventilation. Maybe you can help me. Well, I thought about buying a new duct damper, so please assess exactly that duct dumper. Do you think the device has good performance and is suitable for an apartment?
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Shadyacres
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# Posted: 7 Oct 2014 05:53am
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Mini split all the way. You won't be sorry. I installed one about 5 yrs ago that I got for $800 and it works like a charm. They are less now and like I said I did all the work myself accept for the vacuum which I paid a plumber $ 100 .
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