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beachman
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2014 01:22pm
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In response to Silverwaterlady's mention of appliances in Canada, she is quite right that these are expensive and that shipping can be difficult. This may also serve as a reference (warning) to others as to what they may be looking at to get these new. As an example, we ordered several new appliances (because I am very tired of constantly repairing and fixing these things so I ordered new). We got a Bosch 1600H-LP gas hot water heater from Globaltown with a valve kit, a vent kit and extra pipe all in for about $1,050. 6 propane lights (Falks) from a local supplier in NB for $530 including tax. A Servel Dometic RGE 400 7.3 cf refrigerator from Ben's Discount in Nevada for $1,275 US, a vent kit - $125 + shipping $245 and brokerage $284, a Premier gas range SMK 400-30", also from Ben's - $511 + shipping - $246, a Sunmar Centrex 2000 composter locally (Home hardware) and a Dometic low (1 pint) flush toilet for about $2,300 all in and parts for gas hookup - pipe, lines, fittings & manifold- about $600. Then if you add the vanity, bathroom sink and taps - $300, shower stall and fittings - $300, kitchen countertops, sink, cabinets and hand pump - say $3,400, then water pump, tubing, fitting say another $600 and probably numerous others (not even into the solar set up yet) you're almost at $12k (ouch!). Then I had to lug all this stuff through the woods and across a lake and install it myself.
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Dekagoldwingers
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2014 03:47pm
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Sure adds up in a hurry!
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2014 09:27pm
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Do the propane appliances have a CSA sticker on them?
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beachman
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2014 10:30am
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The stove states specifically CSA approval. The refrigerator says ISO 9001 etc... approval and shipping to Canada, the water heater specifically shipped to Canada, all others purchased in Canada so I assume CSA approval. No questions at border or from brokers. I would assume items would be denied at the border if not approved. I would have to be at my camp to see about stickers - that won't happen for another two months or so.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2014 08:51pm
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I called Bens a month ago. They told me they do not sell CSA approved refrigerators.  We didn't plan to install the appliances because we are not liscenced to do the work. It's illegal for the propane company to install appliances without the sticker.
We also were told by our insurance company that using propane appliances that do not have a CDA sticker would invalidate our policy. It's going to be a long time before I get my appliances. I just can't spend that much money on a less than part time cabin.
I have a old propane refrigerator from our motorhome. I'm going to hook it up outside. Tired of spending $300-400 every summer on ice.
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creeky
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2014 08:54am
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That's why I like my solar system.
I paid $400 for an electric 10 cu ft fridge that no insurance company is ever going to blink at.
Average of 10 ea. for led lights wired to 120/$80 in fixtures (total of 10 lights).
for those looking at off grid life.
Compared to beachman, just the savings on the fridge and lights would have paid for about 1/2 of a solar system. 1 kw system. 600 amp hrs @ 24v batteries.
And you never have to buy/haul propane for them.
My old propane fridge ate 1.25 lbs of propane every day it was running. That's a buck twenty five at today's propane prices every day. I'm coming up on the first anniversary of my electric fridge (Magic Chef, 311 kw/yr) and it has now paid for itself in propane savings.
I even saw a 17 cu/ft model at 300 kw/yr. That would be nice.
Of course I do have to listen to the dang thing humming away in the background of my cabin.
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beachman
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2014 09:48am
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Creeky - I will be installing a solar system this summer. As for insurance and installation, I haves years of experience with propane and have had to install many things over the year just to be practical. I cannot get insurance and every clause would exclude coverage so I can pretty much do as I please and just hope that nothing goes sideways. If you have a wood stove, the insurance companies will find some minor thing that iinvalidates the entire policy and no claim no matter what it relates to. They are not in the risk business.
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creeky
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2014 10:28am
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I hear that. I put my own woodstove in. And my propane for the heater/range.
What kind of solar system are you putting together? I don't know about you. But putting my system together was the most fun I'd had in a decade. Something about doing something new and different I guess.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2014 12:06pm - Edited by: silverwaterlady
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We don't have a wood stove because we would have never been able to be insured. For what we paid for insurance so far we could have all the appliances and the screen porch.
Being at the cabin only three weeks per year I can't have a entire solar system at this time.
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beachman
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2014 01:50pm
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I plan to put in a two deep cycle 6v @225A ( to produce 12v) system hooked up to a 240 watt panel with a 25A MPPT charge controller, wiring and distribution system for about 4 lights and 4 outlets. I have a 1000 watt inverter that will run the system with a trimetric meter to keep track of the battery charge and usage. This is all very new to me but I am so looking forward to it (and will be getting help from a pro). The propane fridge that I have also runs on electric and I might try this too. I'm a propane nut and aside from lugging the tanks - love the stuff. The solar should run the electronics on my stove - clock, timer and spark to the burners and range.
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creeky
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2014 07:52pm
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beachman: sounds like a great system. had to laugh. it's almost identical to my second system. check your loads tho. I don't know I ever came close to the 1000 watt inverter I had much less the 2000 surge.
my current system had a 3000 watt inverter. i just replaced it with a 1300. less overhead. traded 25 watts an hour overhead for 10. that's almost 400 watts/day for free. all my lights and a lot of internet.
what mppt controller are you using?
oh. and watch the power use on the propane fridge. after I put all my panels up i was pretty shocked to see the electric draw on my then propane fridge. your propane fridge is a class above the one I had tho.
silverwaterlady: a small generator and a couple of batteries would probably work best for you. also. did you look for insurance in the local community. my wife and I looked for a couple of months for an insurer and finally found a local guy who knew about woodstoves and living in the local community.
we found him through his brother who I met because I was building a stairway down to a dock that I had built...
about appliances: i was trying to make the point that with the decrease in the cost of solar, some of the previous best practices are now more expensive than going inverted solar.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2014 08:17pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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Quoting: beachman The propane fridge that I have also runs on electric
Every propane fridge, that also operates on electricity that I have looked at, does so with a resistance element heater. That includes the Servel 400. The heat from the little electric heating element takes the place of the heat from the propane flame. They work very well at keeping things cold, but they use a fairly large amount of electricity doing so; horrendous especially when you are off grid. Not a very friendly off grid option. 325 watts by the specs.
Quoting: beachman electronics on my stove - clock, timer and spark to the burners and range.
What range do you have? The vast majority of gas ranges with electronic ignition are real power hogs when it comes to the oven. Most ranges with electronic stove top igniters have a glow bar system for the oven. That uses about 400 watts every second the oven is turned on; makes them impractical for off grid use in most cases.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2014 09:06pm
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All the appliances I was going to get were made for off grid use and built in Canada( so they are CSA certified) by Unique Appliances just in case anyone is interested.
People in the USA can get by with some of the appliances made by Premier. Just be careful because not all of them are made for off grid use.
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beachman
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# Posted: 4 Mar 2014 06:12pm
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Cheeky, my plans call for a Blue Sky 20/25 amp appt charge controller. Yes, agree with all the comments on the electric use of my propane refrigerator. I plan to use only power in an emergency (lack of gas). I probably will not use it on solar electric at all -maybe just generator. The brochure warned about this. I have Premier range and talked to the solar mentor about use for this product. He said it should work fine and not draw an unusual amount of power. If it does, I'll just light it with a bbq lighter like I do now. The system also called for a 300 watt pure sine inverter. I got a 1000 watt pure sine for something else and will use that. I'll let you know how things work out this summer.
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creeky
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# Posted: 5 Mar 2014 09:46am
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that blue sky looks good. as you already have the 1000 makes no sense to change it.
and solar always works well in the summer 
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MarishaB
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# Posted: 17 Mar 2014 11:15pm - Edited by: MarishaB
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ooohhhh
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TheWildMan
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# Posted: 18 Mar 2014 07:58am
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i went with the cheap stuff, living refrigeration free since 2009
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davestreck
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# Posted: 18 Mar 2014 05:03pm
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Is Ben's Discount really the best option for getting a Servel propane fridge in Canada? Shipping ($245) plus brokerage ($284) comes out to $529, almost half the cost of the fridge! I'm considering a propane fridge for my place in NS, and was hoping to find a local distributor. Its either that or I buy it here in the states and try to smuggle it in!
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beachman
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# Posted: 18 Mar 2014 07:11pm
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After ordering my appliances, I found out I could get them locally from Moncton Propane Ltd., Moncton, NB. Abby Landry is a great resource person too.
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skootamattaschmidty
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# Posted: 18 Mar 2014 07:55pm - Edited by: skootamattaschmidty
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Has any of us Canadians considered checking out an RV dealership for propane fridges etc? In my cabin I have a built in propane fridge that was purchased through an RV dealership in the Peterborough area. It is a dometic fridge. Granted it is not a big floor model but it suits me fine. I'm sure bigger ones could be had. It may be a place to check rather then Ben's or other American sights.
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hattie
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# Posted: 19 Mar 2014 01:32pm
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Home Hardware in Canada has propane appliances: http://www.homehardware.ca/en/cat/search/_/N-2pqfZ67l/Ne-67n/Ntk-All_EN?Ntt=propane+a ppliances
I don't know how much they are though.
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davestreck
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# Posted: 19 Mar 2014 04:41pm - Edited by: davestreck
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Quoting: hattie Home Hardware in Canada has propane appliances
Thanks for that link. There is a Home Hardware in the next town, which makes pickup a snap. Does anyone here on the forum have any experience with the Home Hardware units? The 8 cu ft fridge appears close in spec to the Servel RGE400, at least in terms of volume (6.2 cu. ft. fridge, 1.7 cu. ft. freezer), but the pics show slight differences:
Servel:
Home Hardware Brand:
The price is listed as $1,789.99 CAD, which is about $1600 US. Expensive, but still less than it would be to ship a Servel from the states.
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beachman
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# Posted: 19 Mar 2014 07:35pm
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The top one looks exactly like the Servel RGE 400. I have one of the Servels in our camp. The bottom controls are protected with a plastic swing up cover. They are easy to use and very good on gas. I have not installed the vent kit yet as they suggest access to the rear of the unit which is impossible if set next to an outside wall. I may try to bring the in vent up through the floor but hooking it up and periodic maintenance will be difficult. In the Summer, there is plenty of air available. Ous works great and has the battery light as the top one appears to have also.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 19 Mar 2014 07:41pm
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Most important ordering it in Canada new; it will be a legal refrigerator, it will have a CSA sticker.
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