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Troghn
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# Posted: 5 Dec 2009 02:58pm
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The property I plan on building my small cabin side has a spring that runs year round. I plan on collecting this spring water in a storage tank that will be gravity fed into the cabin. This will allow running water without any pumps or electricity. What I'm not sure about is what to do with the water tank in the winter. I don't think they're be enough flow through the tank to keep it from freezing. I guess I could just disconnect the tank in the fall and reconnect it in the spring as I don't think I'll be up there more than once or twice in the winter.
Has anyone else run into this problem? What would you guys suggest?
Thanks
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flatwater
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# Posted: 5 Dec 2009 05:57pm - Edited by: flatwater
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I need to know how much higher you spring is then your cabin, but even without that info it can be handled pretty simple. First bury your water tank. The more capacity of water the less chance of freezing. Also a buried tank keeps the light out of your water storage. Have your water line buried below frost level to the cabin to a frost free water fausit or under the cabin. At this point you can either go gravity feed or siphon feed, both will work. I have had a fifty five gallon tank buried up to the lid and even though it's been a minus 20 the water still has not frozen.
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Troghn
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# Posted: 6 Dec 2009 02:39am
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That's a great idea to just bury the tank. I won't be able to bury all of the water line as it comes down a pretty steep rock face. The spring is probably 100ft (virtually) above where I want to build. The tank will probably be about 20-30ft above where the cabin will be.
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flatwater
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# Posted: 6 Dec 2009 05:10pm
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That's a good distance. Will you be able to bury the line from the tank to the cabin. If not just be sure and have your tank full just before freezing time. They make a hand pump that will empty a 55 gallon drum in two minutes. I have one on order. If you turn clockwise four turns you get a gallon of water. If you turn backwards (counter clockwise) it will drain the water out of the line and pump back into the tank which keeps the pump and lines from freezing. But if your only going to be up there once or twice, just pack your water in
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CabinBuilder
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# Posted: 6 Dec 2009 05:36pm
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Quoting: Troghn I won't be able to bury all of the water line as it comes down a pretty steep rock face.
I wonder if it would make sense to somehow insulate that section of water pipe.
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flatwater
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# Posted: 7 Dec 2009 10:26pm
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It all depends on how cold it gets. Me thinks that insulating it probably won't do any good
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Troghn
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# Posted: 8 Dec 2009 10:42am
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I should be able to bury the line from the tank to the cabin, though I think the best idea may be to just empty the water tank in the fall. It should fill up really quickly in the spring. I don't think insulating the pipe from the spring to the tank will do much good. It's pretty cold in the winter and will be buried in 7 feet of snow.
What do people do who live in this kind of climate year round do? Just leave the entire system dripping constantly to keep it from freezing up?
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Vince P
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# Posted: 8 Dec 2009 12:53pm - Edited by: Vince P
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I ran into this dillema also.
-My first thought was to bury the tank (500 gal rainwater cistern), but that idea is something that is simply not feasible at the moment
-Next, I divised a simple solar heater sytem to heat a super insulated indoor water tank (55 gal barrel), whereby a small solar panel would generate just enough current to power a tiny 12V heating element inside the tank. The insulation would keep the heat in during the non-solar hours. I aquired all the parts to do this and even "plumbed" the indoor tank to the rest of the cabin, but eventually abandoned the idea since I would need to fill the tank by hand from my pond and I could do that without having to deal with long term storage.
-I now simply get water from the pond in 5 gal buckets. This only gets used for washing and "flushing" my homemade composting toilet.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 7 Aug 2011 03:20pm
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Hello,
This could be a great blog . I too live off grid with many situations and cures. I truely enjoy it, anyone out there?Jeff
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TomChum
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# Posted: 9 Aug 2011 10:49am
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Insulating the pipe might work if the water is running all the time. But there are many things that could stop it and then the whole pipe will be frozen until snowmelt.
I have a 250 gal above-ground tank. Does anyone have experience with large above-ground tanks? What size and temps they have remained unfrozen in winter?
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davestreck
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# Posted: 16 Aug 2011 12:03pm
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Since bedrock is only a foot or so below grade at our site, I cant bury a water tank. Plastic rain barrels might survive a hard freeze, but they might not.
My current plan is to construct an above ground cistern. Here it is drawn up in Sketchup:
5'x5'x3' crib-style water cistern, built of PT 4x4s, with threaded rod run down through all 4 corners and bolted top and bottom. Inner surface lined with T&G spruce (same stuff I used on my cabin walls). 2 inches of filtered sand laid down as a base inside, then lined with a custom-fit, potable-water-certified, vinyl tank liner (best quote I got on this was about $300 plus delivery with a 5 year guarantee). Simple roof with a hinged center section for access, then sheathe the outside with more vertical T&G, slap a couple coats of paint on it and run the down spout through a hole in the gable end. Total water storage will be about 400 gallons.
What I like about this concept is the fact that all the materials are relatively cheap (except for the liner, of course) and will be easy to get to the building site. We should be able to get it put together in a weekend, and be out no more than $500 or so.
My concern is still freezing. The liner is supposed to stay flexible even below freezing, and my gut says that the crib design will flex a little if required without sustaining any serious damage, but I'm not sure. Any opinions on this concept would be welcome. Short of hiring someone to go put the plug back in the tank every spring so that its full by the time we arrive in late summer, I need a system that will hold water over the winter without damage. Our friend on the mainland has a similar setup for his garden, basically an open-topped log cabin of rough spruce logs with a tarp arranged inside and spiked to the top edge, and he claims not to have ever had a problem with freezing.
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