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Aqua
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# Posted: 14 May 2012 09:57am
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If you couldn't DIY and didn't have spouse/family/friend for free labor, and your budget was somewhere around $15-$20/sq ft, what would you do? You also need to get it mostly done, insulated with toilet and shower, in 1 to 3 months. Would it change if your budget was $20-25/sq ft or $25-30/sq ft?
I would like to do 320 sf with loft. I may go smaller to 240 sf because of budget. I would live in this full time. I have the land. I am worried about permits and increased taxes.
Hire cheap laborers? It would save money to be the contractor and have my own plans, but create hassles if the laborers are not motivated to work fast and if they make mistakes from misunderstandings or inexperience. I think cheap labor is not good except for a few specific tasks?
Hire Amish builders who cost more but know what they are doing? Hire a cabin/barn company, at even greater cost? Anyone who provides the plans wants to charge so much more. To hire the cabin company means going into debt with them. I feel they charge three times what it could cost, because they finance and can't collect their money from some buyers.
For this example, assume you have water and electric costs already subtracted and you won't install septic. Heating could be a portable propane heater to start with cheaply. The cabin design is hopefully energy efficient and lets in plenty of light. I am unable to maintain a wood burning stove. Hot water heater would use part of the budget. My area does not get temps below 10 degrees often, but it has gotten down to 0 before.
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 14 May 2012 10:08am - Edited by: turkeyhunter
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i would find a really good FRAMING carpenter---maybe a retired one---to help me build it. pay him by the job or hour...your choice
just someone to get the cabin in the dry----quick---
and then you could finish the rest.....in week with someone retired--or out of work ( that know's what there are doing!!!! is the main thing!!!!) --you could be in the dry in a 330 sq. ft. in just a few days...
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Rifraf
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# Posted: 14 May 2012 10:58am - Edited by: Rifraf
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I wouldnt pay by the hour, depending on the honesty of your help not their skill.. you may end up paying a lot more. I would outline and detail as much as possible and go over with the carpenter and agree on an overall price and break it up into milestones if it will take a long time.
If they can frame it and be done in a few days then you can always post date a check for them, if they fail to complete you can cancel check A and write check B for only work done.
I dont like paying hourly, unless the person is registered licensed and insured and can write me a quote for the job first. My backhoe guy has an hourly rate but I always tell him what I want done and my max spending limit, and we agree that it can or cannot be done for that before he starts work, i never leave the cost open ended. It's just not a luxury poor guys like me can afford
FYI : I found my plumber by advertising the job the local craigslist job section. i got lots of replies and many were reputable plumbers looking for cash on the side. If you do this be prepared for a lot of unqualified persons as well.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 14 May 2012 03:50pm
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Quoting: turkeyhunter I would find a really good FRAMING carpenter---maybe a retired one---to help me build it. pay him by the job or hour...your choice just someone to get the cabin in the dry----quick--- and then you could finish the rest.....in week with someone retired--or out of work ( that know's what there are doing!!!! is the main thing!!!!) --you could be in the dry in a 330 sq. ft. in just a few days...
This is eactly what I did, he charged me $40 per hour and supplied all the tools. It was the best $$$ I ever spent. I tok over the rest. I did sub out the foundation and the metal roof. We had a dried in shell in 9 days while only working 6 hours per day, maybe 7 max.
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Borrego
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# Posted: 14 May 2012 08:37pm
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are you wanting a slab-on-grade or raised foundation? Or just whatevers cheapest? What will your lot allow (sloped or flat?) That's where you need to start.
If you can't do any carpentry at all, then yes, find an old framer. You may be able to get er done for $20 per sq ft, but maybe not..... How about taking some courses or working on some side jobs for experience?
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Martian
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# Posted: 14 May 2012 10:43pm
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Being totally honest with you, I don't think you'll be able to build a structure w/loft, wired, plumbed, insulated, and sheet rocked for $10,000 if you have to pay for labor. At even $25/hr, which is what I would charge a person like you, a 40hr week is $1000. If you want it done quickly, then you are talking several people on the job. Even just a helper is going to get $10/hr; so that is another $400/week. The loft adds to the cost since it will require working higher off the ground; ie, ladder or scaffold work.
If your budget of $10,000 dollars is for a dried in structure only, you will be pretty close. But if you want a finished place to live, I don't think you can do it because wiring, insulating, plumbing, covering the walls, trimming and painting are budget consuming task. The sign over my desk says it all, "GOOD, FAST, or CHEAP. Chose two!"
Do discuss with any contractor how much you have to spend. In my case, I will adjust my rates to get the job if I think it will be fun and interesting, the person is deserving of a break, or my bank account is low. But sometimes, it just can't be done. I will say that, if asked for a bid, there is a padding that goes in for "unexpecteds". It is usually cheaper if an estimate is given, but with the understanding that the final cost will be within 10% unless otherwise agreed upon in advance. I do collect for materials when they reach the jobsite. That's for my protection. I can't take back cut boards if something happens to you before completion. For the same reason, I cash out on labor every two weeks. That way we all know where we stand.
There are a lot of good contractors out there; you just need to find one and start asking questions. Ask the local lumber yard for recommendations.
Good luck,
Tom
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Aqua
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# Posted: 15 May 2012 11:32am
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Quoting: Borrego are you wanting a slab-on-grade or raised foundation? Or just whatevers cheapest? What will your lot allow (sloped or flat?) That's where you need to start. If you can't do any carpentry at all, then yes, find an old framer. You may be able to get er done for $20 per sq ft, but maybe not..... How about taking some courses or working on some side jobs for experience?
I'd like to build on a slope on stilts, with part earth-sheltered, or even better if most was earth-sheltered, but the budget means I can't have what I want. It helps if I don't need a backhoe! There is a flat area to build on.
Can't DIY because I have a bad back and other problems. I'm small and female and disabled. I wish I could do a lot of it myself. I may do parts of it myself, but I don't want to injure myself or be in pain, regretting not paying someone else. I might be able to handle drywalling. I would rather not have any drywall or paint in my cabin, but I can't afford nice wood for all the walls.
Yes the roof alone is expensive, the windows (unless I am using cheap thin windows), concrete slab, insulation, it's discouraging how fast it adds up.
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VTweekender
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# Posted: 16 May 2012 11:05am
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Aqua, you can do it, don't ever get discouraged! Your best bet is to save on materials, get a complete list together on what you need right down to the nails. Scour craigslist daily under "materials" in your region, you will be surprised what you can pick up on the cheap. Windows, shingles , doors etc.. are there at great bargains. Sometimes lumber as well, also I picked up my 6x6 treated for foundation and treated deck under "free" on craigslist, also bought 3 real nice vinyl windows with grids $50 for all 3. What region are you located?
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Sustainusfarm
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# Posted: 16 May 2012 11:45am
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Try this site!! I found it a while back and they have videos to watch... I love it..I think it is a great way to go and can be customized to fit your budget....
let me knwo what you think...
http://www.bungalowinabox.com/index.html
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Aqua
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# Posted: 16 May 2012 06:51pm
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Thanks, it is easy to get discouraged. I have gotten some good cheap materials off craigslist before, and seen others cheap or free. A lot of the materials are hard for me to pickup without hiring someone to pick them up for me. I know I can manage and get some parts cheap.
For water, I am thinking of a gravity fed tank, running to one sink and shower, and not having other plumbing. 1 exterior door, 1 closet door, and 1 bathroom door is much less than most people have in their house! The loft can be low ceiling, under 6 ft at the highest point. I may skip the loft. (I saw one lady has a loft only about 2.5 feet high, that's low!) I can't think of anything I need in the interior besides shower stall, large kitchen sink, composting toilet, some kind of hot water heater, and some light fixtures. I have seen lights and kitchen sinks cheap. I don't want kitchen cabinets, and I can get a free counter or use a table. I don't want an oven taking up room, just a fridge. I want really good windows and insulation. I hate to use electric for heat, but propane might be too much hassle for me.
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Aqua
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# Posted: 16 May 2012 07:27pm
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I am thinking of buying a used cabin or garage, one owner. I have seen people who bought one for say $12,000-$20,000 and they have to move, and it's used so it's 1/3 to 1/2 off. Then I have to pay around $1000 to the movers, maybe more if it needs to be torn down and erected, and to place a foundation on my land. However the ones I see are usually max 12 ft wide, so usually 240 sf maximum. I have seen bigger garages, the problem with those is most lack insulation and having a large garage door in one side won't help.
I'm also wondering about building a few smaller structures next to each other. One or two would be 120 sq or less, the magic number. If only I lived in a temperate area. I am in the Ohio valley area. I need to make it comfortable and easy enough for me, so I don't regret it. I think I could get used to the composting toilet, but even that I am worried about spending $850 on if if it's difficult on me.
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