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optimistic
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# Posted: 31 Mar 2012 01:54pm
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Maybe getting a legal cabin is impossible without shedding an arm and a leg for it.
I spoke with another code enforcer and the minute I said I want to use a shipping container as a cabin he says -" you can't do that".
Obviously he is wrong and if I tell him to put it in writing he won't but it shows you the sentiment of these people. They are so closed minded and hard to work with.
I am really starting to rethink this entire dream. They make it impossible.
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Rifraf
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# Posted: 31 Mar 2012 02:07pm - Edited by: Rifraf
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Is there any way you can check for yourself on the shipping containers in the code laws or something. I fell your pain, many law enforcement agencies are trained / brainwashed to see freedom seekers as outlaws and trouble makers that dont "obey the system rules"
One thing you could try is posting a craigslist ad in your local area to seek out someone who can help you legally for free or for barter.
Good luck, keep us posted
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PA_Bound
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# Posted: 31 Mar 2012 03:36pm
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Optimistic... if anybody told you this was going to be easy, well,... they're pulling your leg. In some areas of North America it may be. But remember you're looking for a property in the North East US- one of the most populace and regulated areas of the country. Unless you have deep pockets and connections, it's going to take time, effort, patience and, yes, some money to build legally. But I think the outcome is still worth the effort.
If I could make a simple suggestion, I think you have a pretty good feel for what you can and can't do (legally)- and how much effort and money is required to do it. Instead of focusing on the aspects of cabin building, you may want to focus on acquiring land for a cabin. This could also take some time and effort, and you are going to need to do this before you can build anyway. And with your land acquired you can begin enjoying and understanding it with day trips or camping, while you turn your attention and resources to cabin building. Using the whole "how do you eat an elephant" concept, the individual hurdles may not seem so insurmountable when you can look back as see the progress you have made. My $.02.
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bhebby
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# Posted: 31 Mar 2012 04:12pm
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Its easier to ask for forgiveness than it is permission. I understand why they have laws but within reason you should be able to manage your land however you see fit. As long as you are not putting yourself,neighbors or enviroment in danger then who cares what you do. The almighty dollar drives everything I guess.. Good luck.
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boltpost
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# Posted: 31 Mar 2012 04:37pm
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Stroll on over to the tiny house blog. I noticed several postings that talked about shipping container homes. Also noted was the recent issue of Sunset Magazine that featured a shipping container home. Hope this helps.
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optimistic
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# Posted: 31 Mar 2012 06:37pm
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Thanks for the kind words ppl. I appreciate it.
PABound -I feel like I should first get some kind of understanding from SEO before committing to a piece of land and then having to fight them for it.
I'm going to send the enforcer a simple sketch and explanation and take it from there. I
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 31 Mar 2012 07:04pm
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I have no idea why they wouldnt allow it. I suspect they would almost have too. Its becoming more common place.
http://www.thedailygreen.com/green-homes/latest/shipping-container-homes-460309
http://www.supercubes.com/blog/category/storage/cabin-storage/
A search shows it becoming very common and its considered "green" also. I was thinking of having a 20 footer left on my cabin property for additional secure storage.
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boltpost
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2012 05:27pm
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http://www.thetinylife.com/30-awesome-container-homes/
from the website: Today I found this neat 120 page e-book that showcases 30 container homes for some design inspirations. Many of these are pretty big, but still they show what you can do with these containers and see how to use what can sometimes be a long and narrow space.
very cool link to container homes
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vandersysml
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2012 08:18pm
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You're supposed to drink Starbucks every day, take your car to the mechanic, and live within the confines of an HOA, don't you know that? You're definitely wrong for wanting to do anything innovative. I'm sure you're attached to that part of the country, but in my neck of the woods there's no such thing as "code enforcer." At least not for now. Good luck to you, wish I could could help you kick that guy's butt. Like bhebby said, maybe asking for forgiveness will be better than asking for permission.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2012 09:14pm
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Its easier to ask for forgiveness than it is permission.
Maybe, maybe not. Real problems can arise if the authority having jurisdiction in the area can show that the project would not have been allowed in the first place. Or perhaps it would have been allowed, but would have had to be positioned differently; more setback or something. That can end up being a total waste of time, effort and money.
I don't mean to defend the rules and regulations. There are places where some regs/rules do not make sense. But if the rule was in place and someone forges ahead with a non compliant project they could get a rude surprise.
At least if anyone is going to go ahead and build something without a permit I think it makes some sense to know what is okay and what is not okay. Then try to accommodate the rules as best as can be done.
I have a friend who built a shop/garage a few years back. He had a permit for the building but neglected to get an electrical permit. he did the wiring himself. When the officials discovered that, the electrical inspector selected two random spots; one around a receptacle and the other by a switch and had him cut away the completed drywall so he could inspect the work. It was do that or have the power disconnected. Plus he had a $100 fine and had to take and pass the home owner test and pay double for that too.
My brother-in-law built a deck around two sides of a large above ground pool. No permit. A couple of months after it was done an inspector came by. He liked the deck, said it seemed to be built well. But because my BIL could not prove the size and deoth of the footing for the piers my BIL had to install a bunch of helical screw piles. A PITA that involved removing some deck planks in places. And those were expensive; several times the cost of what the original permit would have been. On top of that he had to pay a double cost permit fee.
Fortunately for the owner-builder in some places the assessor doesn't communicate with the permit folks. So if and when the assessor finds the improvement they may not report to the permit folks. On the other hand the permit folks almost always pass permit info on to the assessors so they can raise your taxes.
Every state has adopted some version of some building code. The only difference is in enforcement.
Sad thing is that code enforcement does not guarantee quality construction. Inspectors do miss things; others are jaded and don't give a damn. Still others are your nightmare, making up "code" or wrongly applying rules. That is where it helps to know what the code states. If it's a big enough error on the inspectors part you have a valid argument and can even win your case on appeal. We've done that a couple times. Code is a minimum and as such also does not guarantee best quality work. But it can be a starting point.
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Steve961
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2012 11:44pm
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If you're only using a single container, you could always just put wheels on it - even if you never intend on trailering it. Much of the tiny house crowd builds their homes on a trailer to get around the building codes. With wheels, it's just an RV that the building codes don't apply to. You do have to be careful that you don't run afoul of restrictions on how long you can park an RV on your property though.
Here's a design I was working on that had wheels to deal with this exact issue.
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Icebear
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# Posted: 3 Apr 2012 03:20am
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There are some great converted container cabins available commercially in NZ. They have fold down decks with a hydrolic system so they are very secure when the owner is away but fold down to give lots of outdoor living space.
I have even heard of people using forestry helicopters to drop them in to challenging sites.
I have a container on my block which I use for storage and apart from condensation it is great.
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Aqua
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# Posted: 12 Apr 2012 05:17pm
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I heard someone in NY had no problems using a container for a home. I mean, their building codes were fine with it. I am surprised. I am prepared to be told no, if I ask.
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Super Cubes
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# Posted: 11 Jul 2012 02:49pm
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Hi!
I do hear this pretty often that the zoning can be an issue. However, container homes are getting to be more and more common. I actually posted the link above on my blog. If there is anything I can do to help you with back-up info on how common these are and how they really shouldn't be banned, please let me know!
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cabingal3
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# Posted: 11 Jul 2012 06:03pm
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the neighbors all up at our woods have them.one fella even put a put his up higher and put a set of porch steps up to it.
and our good buddy up by us...got several shipping containers.at one point i think he spoke of stacking them.
he even made a huge porch on his front of his regular home...wood pallets stacked under steady and wood placed on top and then he had rails made up for him.looks good and steady.his back porch is the same.
we never asked any permission to anyone.
now the new neighbor who worked for the state-he went in and bought property and he went and had all his property bulldozed off and all cleared and he i think even got his well or septic system in.he went to ask permission to build a yurt.they told him no.he has his property up for sale.
if no one is around at all anywhere and u cant see u from any roads.who cares if u build a little cabin?we just knew the law here was we could build anything 200 sq.feet.we can build three buildings on each of our properties.
whose to say one year down the road...they may get joined by a breezeway.
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exsailor
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# Posted: 12 Jul 2012 09:53am
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Here is a link that shows what you can do with two shipping containers. http://www.mtnsh.com/?p=5224 The language appears to be Arabic, but this isn't an Arabian landscape. The pictures translate well, even if the language doesn't. Since this structure is based on the 20 foot containers, they make something a bit bigger than is usually associated with a cabin and more of a house. Since shipping containers are metal boxes with their structural strength on the corners, you must provide a suitable drainage field to keep your floor for rusting out from under you. The minimum support would be pressure treat or blocks under each of the 4 corners, and in the case it would be six corners. Something to think about is using refrigerated containers. They are pre-insulated, and would solve a lot of condensation problems. When doing interior insulation it is best to use a sprayed on insulation. If you use roll insulation condensation on the metal walls will eventually cause mold and mildew. If you spray on insulation there isn't any air space between the metal wall and insulation where condensation could form or a temperature difference to cause condensation. There is quite a bit of thought going into the design. Almost every cut out is repurposed later in the design. When dealing with codes or government agencies a portfolio of these pictures or other container conversions could change some minds, and make it easier to get permits. Just a bit of my research and thoughts on the subject, hope it helps.
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Steve961
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# Posted: 12 Jul 2012 10:59am - Edited by: Steve961
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exsailor:
The original english language site for that build is at sea container cabin. The structure is also based on two 40' containers. While I applaud their work, I think they should have built it on a real foundation instead of dirt and rock, and also used spray foam insulation on the inside. Unless you have a 100% perfect vapor barrier on top of the fiberglass insulation, you will eventually get condensation on the interior container walls.
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exsailor
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# Posted: 12 Jul 2012 11:32am - Edited by: exsailor
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It has been a while since I saw the original site you posted. Thanks, it goes into my shortcuts. I saw the sprayed insulation on the outside, but didn't look close at all the pictures of the inside to notice the inside sprayed insulation. The link is blocked at my daytime connection. I checked it when I got home, so I would post an active link. Shouldn't the sprayed insulation inside and out solve any condensation problems? I agree about the foundation. Even though the two containers are welded together, a proper foundation will keep problems from developing later. Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread to turn it into a constuction post.
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Steve961
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# Posted: 12 Jul 2012 11:50am
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exsailor:
They only lightly spray foamed the exterior on the roof and two sides. The front, and one of the sides, was not sprayed at all. The interior insulation was R13 fiberglass as shown in this link: insulation.
There's nothing wrong with insulating the outside of a shipping container, and there are several benefits to doing so - you just need to insulate all of it. In that case, it's usually best to leave the inside walls the original container steel.
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flyrdr
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# Posted: 12 Jul 2012 12:12pm - Edited by: flyrdr
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OPTIMISTIC, ask to be shown in writing where, in whatever codes or standards they adhere to, where a shipping container does not conform. There has to be documentation as such.
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rayyy
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# Posted: 16 Jul 2012 06:07am
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That's a lot of work and money turning a steel shipping box into a functional shelter.I'd like to talk you into getting yourself a nice camper trailer as an alternitive and plunking it down on your land.You'd be all set togo.Doors,windows.plumbing,power,walls,floors,ceiling,stove,frig,toilet,sinks,shower ,bedding,kitchen,everything you need,,,all done.
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optimistic
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# Posted: 16 Jul 2012 07:46am - Edited by: optimistic
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rayyy - you don't need to talk me into that: I have already decided that this will be my path. I will renovate it into a nice space and later build a real cabin next to it. 
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TheCabinCalls
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# Posted: 16 Jul 2012 11:18am
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In our area the code says we cannot use recycled material or "used" material unless approved. So it is vague enough that they can decide willy-nilly.
Also in our area you couldn't get a crane in to move this thing...too many trees. We started down the path of prefab, but found it would be too hard to get something in with our site.
REMEMBER - code and regulations are never aware and don't care what the trends are. We had a heck of time trying to get the most energy effecient place built. We kept scratching our heads...really?!
Two paths you can take:
1. push against the regulations. find loop holes, find work arounds, get a lawyer.
2. Find a way that complies as much as is needed. Then when they are out of your life you can tweak...
We started down path number one. Partially because I don't like being told how I have to build my own place. But I soon realized we could get 90% of what we wanted if we played by the rules to get the project moving...
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shnnnh
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# Posted: 18 Jul 2012 08:55am
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I wonder if another route might be to get an engineer's approval for the shipping container design. This would let the inspector off the hook.
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Xplorer
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# Posted: 18 Jul 2012 02:32pm
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I 2nd the camper. That's how the wife & I started out on our property. The camper also strips out nice for propane fueled items in your cabin afterwards.
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TheCabinCalls
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# Posted: 19 Jul 2012 11:48am
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shnnnh maybe on to something. We got an engineer stamp on our project and used it to stop the uncertainty...
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bldginspector
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# Posted: 19 Jul 2012 03:23pm
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The inspector who said 'You can't do that' was out of line, if indeed that's what he said. You can do anything you want so long as you show that it meets minimum code requirements. Doing so with a container seems daunting because it's made of steel, not wood and nails, but the same basic engineering requirements apply.
The way to approach a building department with this- and any- project is to present a set of plans with engineering which basically asserts that the project meets minimum code requirements. They can't refuse it if it does. So, as stated above, get an engineer to touch it with his/her magic wand. If the engineer puts their stamp on it, the building department will accept it unless they take issue with the engineering.
Same goes for planning requirements and building requirements other than structural, such as egress, light and ventilation, minimum room size and height etc. If what you want to do does not violate any provisions, they have to let you do it.
As for the cliche that all government workers are hell bent to stop you from doing anything out of the ordinary, or just want the fees, etc. etc., I have to say that I've seen little of that and more of the opposite. Generally if you show that you understand their requirements, rather than hate requirements just cause they are requirements, people will work with you. But, then, I'm on the west coast far away from the strange inclination to conformity and rigid thinking found east of Colorado. The rigid conformists try to impose their absolute way of doing things, then the rebels fight this with their own brand of absolute rigidity. The rest of us sit and wonder at both self righteous sides ripping into each other for no other reason than their own attachment to their opinions. Meanwhile time is wasted that could be used to build a cabin.
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