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optimistic
Member
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2012 05:46pm
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Hi everyone,
I have been reading in this wonderful forum the last week or so. I always, since being a young boy, dreamed of having a nature getaway. I would like to buy a small patch of secluded land and build it myself.
I live in NYC with my wife and we really do not have money to invest in this so I am trying to come up with a plan, hopefully with the help of people here, to achieve this aspiration.
Questions:
1. I read that PA is the best place to go if you want to build something simple and with no need for permits - under the recreational cabin thing. It states that it cannot be larger than two stories but it doesn't say what is the max sqft it could be. Anyone knows?
2. Will this kind of path will also be possible in NY/NJ? (building a non-requiring-permits-cabin) and if so what is the max size?
3. Water source. beside a well (expensive right? how much is it?), what are my options for water that won't be expensive?
4. Sewer. My wife will not go for a outhouse unless it could resemble a real bathroom as much as possible. So unless that is an option, and excluding the septic system option (expensive), what else can I do for sewer?
5. Electricity. I have no problem having the biggest pie of my mediocre budget to go on connecting to power. But will this make the whole "no need for permit" cabin idea more complicated?
6. If you wanted to build a small cabin, on a very limited budget, how will you do that? (in terms of location, construction, sewer, power, and so on.)
7. If I try to really minimize costs, how much should something like this cost (buying the land, construction, and all) ?
Uri
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VTweekender
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2012 06:44pm
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Welcome to the forum!
In most (if not all) towns the minimum structure before needing a permit is for a "shed". Most the time, if you declare it to be a cabin, you will need a permit for any size cabin. Which may or may not require code to be followed, depends on where you are. Always check these things with the town/county before you buy property. Most will just go ahead and put up the "no permit" size "shed"....and get friendly with any neighbors...
As for septic...very expensive...and lots of hoops to jump through. And you can't install a septic for a "shed". You could use a nice new composting toilet and make a nice little structure for it with tile etc...
Electric...first you will need electric very near by...to run it from any distance to your property is very expensive...I have heard stories of $2,000-$3,000 for every 100 feet to the property...Solar is an option, as is a generator. Also again, don't think you will get a permit to run electric to a "shed", it requires a permit to run.
To drill a well is about 7K and up...you could collect rainwater for showers and bring drinking water and water for dishes etc. with you for a weekend.
Without knowing what the budget you have in mind actually is, it is hard to give ideas on how to do it. In my case I set a budget of about $15,000 to buy the land, build a "shed" myself to the "no permit" size (in my case its 100 sq ft maximum) , go with a small solar system, composting toilet, antenna on roof for TV, catch rainwater for showers, I have a natural spring nearby to get fresh water, propane to cook, and small woodstove to heat if I decide to use it in the winter. I have the land paid off now(1 acre in VT), with electric, phone and cable to it about 100 feet away, but I don't plan on hooking to the grid at this time. And I think I will stay on budget, or close when done...yet to build...but slowly putting together my solar system and few other things for when the time comes.
Sometimes getting the land and picking up a self contained travel trailer sounds easier.. bring it there , level and block it, build a deck for it, good to go....
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PA_Bound
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2012 08:51pm - Edited by: PA_Bound
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My $.02 on several of your questions:
1. I don't know if PA is the best place to go if you want to build something simple, but it is my experience some aspects are defintely easier. You mention the Recreational Cabin Affadavit (herein "RCA"). Yes... that eliminates the need to build to code, but it also carries some restrictions. From my RCA, they include:
- Will only be used for recreational activities only.
- Will not be utilized as a domicile of residence by myself or any other person for any period of time.
- Will not be used for commercial purposes.
- Will not exceed two stories in height (including the basement, if any).
- Will not be used as a place of employment.
- Will not be used as a mailing address for bills or correspondence.
- Will not be listed as any individuals place of residence on a tax return, drivers license, vehicle registration or or voter registration.
There is no mention of a max square footage limit. The Township told me "just don't build a gymnasium". Much room for interpretation there. Also, I'm not sure every location in PA recognizes the RCA. Check with the township you are interested in.
3. Water wells can be expensive, I guess. Mine cost ~$5200 (320 feet deep, and included casings, grout and 3/4 hp well pump) which I thought was a good price. The only other solution for me was to haul water- no fun. PS... some people complain and berate well drillers. I can't say enough good things about mine.
4. Sewer... the big gotcha'. The RCA does not eliminate the need for a septic permit- unless you are looking at a composting or similar solution, as mentioned by VT (agian however, check with the township or locality on what they allow). It's not unusual to spend $15K-$20K into a true septic system, as most likely it will be a sand mound-type system and require perc tests, engineering design and pumps. You can however put septic on just about any structure with the RCA(without?)- even a shed.
5. Electricity- can be another big expense but, IMHO, the easiest to do without. Between generators, solar, batteries other solutions, I don't think electricity is a requirement. If it's close- hook it up. But I wouldn't dump big money on getting it to your site. If it's close however, they will bring the power close to your building site for a fee. You (or a qualified electrician) just have to finish the connection from the pole or pedestal, to your shed/cabin.
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fthurber
Member
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2012 09:12pm
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Use real wood! You can get it from the local sawmill for the same price or less than OSB or plywood. Better for your health and smells better and looks better.
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SE Ohio
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2012 09:27pm
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In Ohio, building codes/permits vary by county. Some rural counties do not have a building code (but most do require septic compliance). Other states may vary by county too? In PA for instance, I bet the counties with large cities have different expectations compared to rural counties.
As others have said, there are a lot of options.
Water source- One can collect and treat water, or truck in water to a storage tank, drill a shallow well (cheap) or a deep well ($$$), or hook up to city/county water. Depends on where you are and what you are comfortable with...
Toilet- Search "loveable loo" or other compost/composting toilet for indoor use. Your mileage may vary...
Electricity- Like water, you can hook up with the city/county source or brew your own - generator/solar/geothermal, etc.
Total price for what you want depends on your tastes. You can do something basic for under $20,000 land and all in OH, WV, VA, KY etc (see recent thread on new Ohio cabin built for under $5000). You'll pay more to have others do the work, or to be close to conveniences/metro areas, be on grid, etc.
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Just
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2012 10:04pm
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8 x 12 +rain water + solar panel + outhouse = 5000$ +++ land??
12X16=rw+sp+oh=8000$ ++ land
used RV +rw+sp+oh=2500$ +++ land
land and travel costs are the ones to think about first
good luck
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optimistic
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2012 11:12pm
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Thank you guys for the nice welcome and info!
Some thoughts after reading your answers and more info:
I believe that a rain collection system for no drinking water should suffice. I only intend on staying in the cabin on 3-4 nights at most. I have school and work.... I will bring drinking water with me.
My biggest concern is still the sewer. I cannot afford a septic system. The compost toilet seems too crazy to me. What if I digg a big whole in the ground, 20' away from the cabin, and run a 4" pvc pipe to it, and flush the toilet over there. The trench will obviously be covered in some composting "helping material" - hay or something... Will that work? I just want a solution so I can have a regular toilet function of 'flush and forget'.
I am working on the cabin in 3D right now to completely plan it as I have never built anything like this in my life. I have some very basic construction questions:
1. Can I use 2x4 with 24" spacing or will that be too weak?
2. What is the easiest roof to build?
3. does anyone have any pictures or plans of framing? I am ashamed to say I have never really framed a wall.
4. My current plan is to have the cabin size 24x16 (subject to change) without the front porch. How should I do the foundation?
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JoshG
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2012 11:56pm
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Optimistic,
You are starting out just like I did. Wanting a place since I was a kid, and looking to build it on a budget. I am in Wisconsin, so I can't answer your questions on permits, although I too wanted to avoid them. Unfortunately, I was not able to, but it really wasn't too painful a process. The county I built in is somewhat relaxed, and I ran into no real snags. I bought my 5 acres a few years ago for 12,000, but parcels have come down somewhat in price, not sure what they are in your neck of the woods. For a foundation, I used treated 6x6 posts, buried in the ground at least 4', and above grade about a foot, with a trippled up treated 2x10 beam across them. Two beams on posts make up my foundation. For the cabin itself, I went to a local sawmill, and bought 6"x8" red pine square timbers. I used a planer and beveled the four edges, stacked, glued and screwed them together, and chinked the outside. I found it to be considerably cheaper and less time consuming going this way, versus standard framing. My cabin is 16x22, almost exactly the size you are wanting to build. I have a 60watt solar panel attached to two large marine batteries, and that system will run lights, TV, a fan, and I have a small inverter to run a small 110v appliance. I have a bathroom built inside, with a shower stall, sink, and a compost toilet. The compost toilet really works well, and there is NO odor. I would highly recommend going this route, as it is very cost effective. At this point there is no water, but I am working on getting a rainwater system in place. I can run an RV 12v water pump to run the water through the cabin. Here is a picture of mine:
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PA_Bound
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2012 12:04am - Edited by: PA_Bound
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I'm going to let others more qualified respond to your construction questions, but I would like to respond to your sewer questions.
Your idea of piping sewer over to a hole... will it work? I suspect it probably would. But you need to ask two more questions:
1. Is it legal? Absolutly not!
2. Will I get caught? That depends... most likely on what area you're building in, how remote your cabin location is, how much land you have and how well your neighbors like you.
Sewer systems are getting more attention it the remote areas of PA than probably any other aspect of cabin building. And the rules seem to vary by local area. As part of your decision to purchase property you need to check with the local governing body to determine what their rules are for recreational properties. I have two cabins in PA. The first is a hunting camp we built in the late 90's, at which we had a very functional, un-permitted, outhouse. A few years ago we were contacted by the Township and told that we had to upgrade the outhouse. They didn't force us to install septic however, all we had to do was install a holding tank that gets pumped at least once every 12 years. No big deal... and we actually have an official permit for that. At a second camp in another Township and county however, the only legal system is a septic system. I've lobbied for the same holding tank system- to no avail. And since septic permiting is outsourced to a private entity in this area, they actually have inspectors that roam looking for illegal sewage dumping- as I've been told they get to keep much of any fines collected.
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optimistic
Member
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2012 01:09am
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Joshg,
Amazing cabin! So many of the things you did are exactly what I wish to do. How are those compost toilets work? I'm sorry for the disgusting question but.... where does it go? Do i just "use" it and then close it? I don't really understand how could this be. 
the triple 2x10 are 22ft??? or you had 2 11ft beams?
what kind of roof you put on there?
PA_Bound,
I agree - I rather avoid the illegal route.
How does the holding system work? is it basically a big tank that holds everything in there?
Also --
Did you do the whole recreational route thing?
Are there really no limit on sqft for the cabin if you choose this route? obviously an enormous one will not go but mine is only 384 sqft.
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SE Ohio
Member
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2012 07:46am
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Compost toilet info: http://humanurehandbook.com/store/LOVEABLE-LOO-Eco-Toilet.html
We have one, and can too attest that it doesn't put off odors.
As far a framing, your local library should have LOTS of books that you can take home and peruse while you form your plan. Make copies, take notes, and make sketches. You might be able to find a copy of the Time-Life "Cabins and Cottages" book which is simple and cheap http://www.amazon.com/Cabins-Cottages-Repair-Improvement-Updated/dp/0783539134/ref=sr _1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1330778358&sr=8-9
(I'm sure there are better books, and others can weigh in with their favorites)
You can look for land parcels at realtor.com and other sites. I found a few acres bordering state land. Its like I have thousands of acres but without the cost!
Here's the link to the under 5k build:
http://www.small-cabin.com/forum/3_1902_0.html
I agree with the keep-it-legal route. Less worries long term. Makes it easier to sell if you ever move on, too.
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JoshG
Member
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2012 09:12am
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Optimistic,
The compost toilet has a large drum. You start out with peat, or some people use saw dust or even leaves, but I use the peat that is made for them. You use it just like any other toilet. Ocassionally you turn the drum with the crank, and there is a separate bin, kind of like an ash pan on a woodstove, that you pull out occassionally and empty. It is completely composted material. It is really not gross, and like I said before, no odors. There is a tube on mine that will allow excess liquids to run off, but I don't use it nearly enough for that. There is a 4" vent pipe on the back of the unit that you pipe to the exterior, which allows odors and moisture to escape.
They do make an incinerator type toilet as well, but I am not very familiar with how they work. Maybe another option for you to look into.
I was going to go with an outhouse with the holding tank that was stated above, but then I started looing into compost toilets. I really like the idea of having the toilet inside, so when nature called in the middle of the night, I wouldn't have to go outside.
As far as the beams, yes, 22'. I used a series of 8', 10' and 12' 2x10s to make a trippled beam, and stagger your seams
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PA_Bound
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2012 09:32am
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How does the holding system work? is it basically a big tank that holds everything in there?
It's just that- a big, square, concrete box in the ground. After we spoke with the township about the letter, this solution is what they suggested. They were actually very helpful. I don't think they were out to harass or punish anyone, just to fix things up and move forward. So we contacted an excavator and he installed a 1000 gallon holding tank, after which we loaded the outhouse on the back of a pickup truck, filled in the old hole, and reinstalled the outhouse on top of the new tank. I don't have the permit here in front of me, but I think the only rules are that the outhouse has to be >50' from the cabin, that it has to be pumped out once every 12 years and that an inspector from the township must be onsite when the pump-out is performed. BTW... we have a basic outhouse on this. If this was something more than a hunting camp I would consider putting a real toilet in place- it could easily be done.
Did you do the whole recreational route thing?
Yes... for the family cabin I'm currently working on I have Township notarized Recreational Cabin Affidavit for my cabin, and that's the permit under which I'm building. For me it is the perfect solution. As I'm never planning to live in my cabin full-time I found the restrictions very easy to live with. The RCA is the perfect compromise offering freedom to build in a common-sense fashion in an era where everything you do affects somebody else. One other note about the RCA is that it does modify your deed to indicate the structure is just a recreational property, and may not be built to code. So don't think you can build a structure with an RCA then try to sell it as anything but a recreational property. Resale value of the property could be affected if the buyer is looking for more than a cabin (again, not an issue for me).
Are there really no limit on sqft for the cabin if you choose this route?
I wasn't kidding above with the gymnasium quote. The Township told me in writing (e-mail) that there is "No restrictions on size. Just don't build a Gymnasium". My cabin is 14'x36' (not including the 4' porch), or 504sqft. I'm not sure how to link to another thread, but here is the URL to my cabin construction thread if you're intersted. http://www.small-cabin.com/forum/6_1536_0.html
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2012 12:41pm
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If I was on a budget and wanted to build a cabin, I'd build it to the max size where no permit is needed. I think its now 200 sq feet. I'd build it in modules, ie floor, walls, built at home, then prep the site, set the floor in place, then walls, add rafters, sheet and roof it.
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optimistic
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2012 12:43pm
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More General Questions:
1. If you could chose one book for all your construction needs of a cabin, whether it is specific for cabins or not, which one will it be. I need to figure out the construction aspect.
2. What do you guys do with the waste water from the shower, kitchen and bathroom sinks?
3. I was really hoping to build a small water collection system that will sit higher than the height of the shower head so I can use it in all the house for the faucets, toilet, and shower. Almost like a private water tower only that it will not be too high- enough to be lower than the gutters and higher than the shower head. Will that work?
4. If I do go the rain collecting route - what do I do during winter? How can I overcome this issue? Will the roof get hot from heating the cabin and that will melt it?
5. What is my least expensive option for a water heater (shower)?
6. I read about those rocket mass heaters and I love it. Especially the fact that I can build it myself. Will you guys recommend this or should I just save myself the trouble and get a regular wood burning stove? If you think I should get a regular one then what size will be sufficient in my cabin?
Josh -
I looked into this compost thing and I think I found something that I like: http://www.letsgogreen.com/centrexwaterflush-desc.html
Its uses electricity and a tiny bit of water, both of which I intend to have in the cabin, so it seems like the closest you can get to a traditional toilet. It is very expensive.... Do you know of any other similar ones who might be less expensive?
what kind of roof you have there?
PA bound -
Thanks for this great info.
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JoshG
Member
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2012 02:34pm
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This is a link to the one I have. I found mine used for $400. The guy was updating to conventional plumbing. I think I got a very good deal 
http://www.sun-mar.com/prod_self_exce_ne.html
My roof is a shingled roof, not ideal for water containment, but will suit me ok. I also have a shed that is in dire need of a roof, I may put steel on it and run the water into my tank from that. Still up in the air on that, though.
As far as your other questions,
1. any big box lumber yards will have DIY books. Look around a little, there probably is no one single book that will answer all your questions, but you should be able to cover the basics. And this site seems to have a wealth of knowledge and friendly people that are quite willing to offer up advice. I am a contracter, and am happy to answer any of your construction questions.
2. Currently, my grey waste water drains to the ground. The county I am in is pretty relaxed, and as long as I don't have a well on the property, they aren't concerned with it.
3. You might have trouble with that type of water system. If your walls are 8' high, and your shower head is 6' high, that only leaves you room for a 2' high water tank. Possible? yes, but probably not practical. I would go with a large capacity tank that can rest on the ground, and use some kind of pump instead.
4. You would need to drain the tank, and divert the downspout away from filling the tank. If you plan to visit the cabin in the winter months, you could bring water from home in 5 gallon water tanks for each visit.
5. I am looking at the ventless tankless water heaters. They run around $125. They are ventless and are not recomended for indoor use, but the little bit it would get used, FOR ME, I wouldn't have a problem mounting one inside. Gas stoves, gas space heaters, etc are unvented and suitable for indoor use, I see no reason why a small water heater with limited use wouldn't be fine. Just make sure to have a good carbon monoxide detector. They also do make vented ones, but they tend to be a bit higher in price.
6. Not sure what a rocket mass heater is, but if you go with a wood stove, just about anything will heat the size of your future cabin. I bought the smallest one I could find, it is rated for up to 1200 or 1500 square feet (can't remember for sure), but being mine is only about 350 square feet, I can easily roast myself out of the cabin on a below zero day.
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optimistic
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2012 05:49pm
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Wow. What a wealth of information. Thank you so much Josh!
I am not sure if I will go for the tankless heater or the regular electric water heater. I sent an email to the company who makes the tankless ones because homedepot carries one (electric) that is 1.8 gpm for 179$. If I can keep the rain barrels indoors it will allow me, during the cold months of course, to heat it up rather easily as the water will be close to room temp. The lowest flow showerhead I found in HD is 1.5. As I said, I am waiting to hear back from the company to find out if it will work.
More questions if you don't mind:
1. I might have found the right piece of land. It is 1.3 acre and quite cheap. There aren't any photos and I'll try driving over there next weekend to see it. They do say on the post that it has a steep slope...
What type of foundation should I use if I want to built it to last?
2. Which roof will be the easiest to construct?
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JoshG
Member
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2012 06:14pm
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Are you still going to try to build without permits? I needed to get a zoning permit, and they came out and did a site visit. Not sure how steep of a slope you have, but you could run into a problem with unstable ground, mudslides, etc. Zoning would be able to help you out with that. If it seems quite a bit cheaper than parcels of equal size, that might be part of the reason. BEFORE YOU BUY, VERIFY WITH SOMEONE IN AUTHORITY THAT IT IS INDEED BUILDABLE. I nearly bought a property that I later found out was not buildable. Really dodged a bullet there, and learned a good lesson. Not to rain on your parade, just some things to consider.
If you find that you can build on it, I would think building like I described my foundation, on posts, would be the most cost effective. As far as a roof goes, I would think a regular gable style roof with shingles would be easiest.
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VTweekender
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2012 06:21pm - Edited by: VTweekender
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Opti, going below the frostline with piers will be the most stable and last longest IMO, 4 feet down would get you below the frost line in most cases.
A shed style roof is most likely the easiest to put up, it just angles down from the fron and no joining rafters, in other words if you had a 10' front wall and a 8' rear wall you would just put the rafters on top and have a 2' runoff angle.
Many styles and plans to look at and print out for free here http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/extension-aben/buildingplans/housing
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optimistic
Member
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2012 07:22pm
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Jush,
The land I saw is most likely buildable because I can see with the satellite pictures that there are several big houses next to it - but I will do a lot of homework before I take any money from my pocket.
But I appreciate your concern. I will take your advice and look into it of course. I will take pictures when I go there to show you and have your opinion on it. I just hope it isn't very bad but like I said - I can see very big houses down the road so I guess it is not too bad - but who knows...
Permits - I will only buy in PA because of that "recreational cabin" statue which allows me to build what ever size cabin I want, or as PA Bound said it: "No restrictions on size. Just don't build a Gymnasium". I do not need any other permits which is great. This arrangement will fit me perfectly and will just carry me right over the codes and such.
Foundation - I do want to use those concrete tubes. I feel they are pretty straight forward in terms of using thme (please correct me if I am wrong) and they will last for a very long time. I do want to have those (sorry for my lack of construction lingo) metal braces embedded into the tubes that will hold, like you suggested, tripled treated 2x10's. My concern is that if I use 22ft ones I won't be able to move them by myself - weight wise, and my wife won't be able to give me a hand. Can I use 12' ones instead?
VT weekender - thanks for the info and links!
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optimistic
Member
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2012 08:12pm
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Another construction question:
I will have three supporting beams going the width (24') of the cabin - two on the outside and one in the middle. The joists will then go between?
Or do I only do two supporting beams in the outside corners and span joists in the middle?
What kind of joists did you use?
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JoshG
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2012 08:28pm - Edited by: JoshG
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Here is a diagram I came up with to illustrate. Figure 1 is your concrete tubes, showing a moderate grade. Figure 2 is an overview of the beam setup. Use four columns per beam. Make sure your splices in each 2x10 lands on a column. Each column needs a footing as well. Joists will go across these beams, and at 16' and using a 2x10 for joists, there is no need for a middle set of columns. Make sure and use X-bridging down the center of the joists though.
EDIT: I made the diagram based off of my dimensions of 16x22. For your application in Figure 2 subsitute 24' instead of 22'.
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PA_Bound
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2012 08:39pm - Edited by: PA_Bound
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Opti... you never indicated what area of PA you are looking at. Where ever it is, again before you lay out any cash, make sure the governing body accepts the RCA. I would check into what the septic requirements are also- regardless of what you are planning to install. Several reasons for these recommendations, not the least of which is if there are big houses close, and you build something they don't appreciate, you want to make sure you are fully compliant with the permits or they could cause you trouble. Just a word to the wise...
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optimistic
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2012 09:59pm
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Josh,
Thank you! That makes things clearer for me. So I gather that I will need to cut every joist to fit between the beams?
what spacing should I do between the joists?
PA_bound
The land is in Monroe county - Chestnuthill Township. Do you know if they accept RCA?
After I speak with the seller and see the lot, I will start making phone calls to make sure I can do what I want to do.
I thought that as long as they accept RCA - I will be able to do what ever I want. I intend to have a compost toilet.... If I need a septic I will not go for it. BTW- what are you doing with waste water from sinks and shower?
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JoshG
Member
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2012 10:13pm - Edited by: JoshG
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No, the joists will sit on top of the beams, and hang over about a foot on each side. (see figure 1) Footing, column, beam, then 2x10 joist on top. 16" on center for spacing.
Also, in your first post you had asked about 24" spacing for studs. You could, but I would recommend going 16"OC for studding. The extra cost on a structure that size will be VERY minimal, but the benefits will be much greater.
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PA_Bound
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2012 11:25pm - Edited by: PA_Bound
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I am not familar with the that area, and a quick check on the internet for that township does not include any reference to the RCA. But they do list a fairly complete list of names, phone numbers and (in some cases) e-mail address for contacts within the zoning, building code and sewage enforcment departments (see here: http://www.chestnuthilltwp-pa.gov/board.htm#Reception), so it should not be hard to get answers.
If they do recognize the RCA, that will exempt your cabin from the Uniform Construction Code requirements. Your property must still comply with zoning and septic requirements. It seems that some areas recognize systems like composting toilets, while others don't (I recall other threads on this forum discussing this).
As for my cabin, I have not done anything- yet. I have a valid permit for a mound septic system. Estimated cost to install is $15K to $20K. I don't have that amount of cash available now, so for this construction phase I'm currently using a portable toilet that I just bring home after each trip for service. I'm used to doing this with my camper, so it's really no big deal. I'm still considering ande researching options for what I will do once the construction is complete, but I may just keep using the portable for a while till I figure out and can afford a final solution.
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jgiffi
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# Posted: 4 Mar 2012 01:31pm
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Optimistic,
I am in the processing of building my camp in Camden, NY and I have done everything myself so far. Just want to give you a warning when you look at the lot that since you are not an experienced builder I would be careful trying to construct your first place on a slope. A minor slope isn't bad but if its going to be significant then it is going to be considerable more difficult to construct. Also, if you decide to go with a tank you are going to have to think how is someone going to get in there and excavate the hole for the tank (steep slope =$$$) . Remember be patient, it took my one year to get this far, I still want to get a septic tank, well, wire, plumb and insulate. Also, I looked into sonotubes when I constructed mine but by the time I calculated how much concrete I would need and the fact that I couldn't get a cement truck into my site even if I rented a mixer I needed roughly 120 bags (80lbs/bag). You need to make sure that the tubes are reinforced really well before pouring the concrete into the tubes because if they tilt or tip a little there is no way you will be able to move them or at least not very easily! I decided to use 6x6 posts because they are easier to work with and are more forgiving. I believe concrete is definitely a better option if its feasible but for me it wasn't. Spend alot of time making sure your foundation is square because it will make everything else easier as you construct along the way! I had to get a building permit ($150 and its only good for a year) but I find the taxes more frustrating then following the building code! Another thing I will mention is make sure you get something close enough to where you live that you will be able to actually use your camp. I selected 2hrs because its an easy commute and I don't spend the majority of the weekend just trying to get there!
Lot -25 acres $35,000
Building costs to date: ~$6000
Taxes /yr on vacant land $1000
Taxes with new structure and land - who knows? 
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optimistic
Member
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# Posted: 4 Mar 2012 01:57pm
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Thanks Josh.
PAbound - thanks for the links. I will give them a call next week to learn more.
Now, after spending two full days of planning the cabin, I am starting to think that I might not have time to do this by myself. I live two hours from that piece of land, and even if I won't buy this one I am looking for land which is two to two and half hours away anyway, so this will make it inefficient to drive their to work without staying there. But until I have at least the foundation, subfloor, exterior walls, and roof, in place - I can't stay there.
I thought about subletting an apartment/room close by for three weeks during the summer and work on it. I need to have a standing shell by the time I am done, including electricity (will need to hire electrician and get the utilities company over there to run it) and bathroom, so I can then start going over there every other weekend to slowly finish it up. The problem with this plan is that A. I can't go for so long (work and school) and B. I never built anything like this and without having the right equipment (generator, portable toilet, and so on) will make it nearly impossible for me to finish in time.
I believe that my only option is to get a contractor to build the shell for me. Then i could just go there on weekends and slowly finish it. What do you guys think?
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JoshG
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# Posted: 4 Mar 2012 02:34pm
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I would think you could pick up an older used camper of some kind to park there and stay in while you are building it, cheaper than you could rent a place to stay.
Also, and I mean no disrespect, but if you do not have at least the basic knowledge to complete a structure like this, it would very wise to have someone there at the very least to guide you in the right direction that is qualified. You wouldn't necessarily need someone to erect it for you, but having someone qualified on site to help you, or for you to help them, would be a very good idea. DIY books are great, but a person can get easily overwhelmed, or even worse, miss something that can affect the entire structure.
At the very least, I would have the foundation done by someone qualified. Digging footings can be a real pain, especially in rocky terrain, if you don't have the proper equipment. In many cases, renting the equipment you need can prove to be nearly as expensive as hiring the project out. And depending on the steepness of the grade, things can get a little tricky there as well.
Good luck!! Sounds like you are really doing your homework, which is great!
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VTweekender
Member
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# Posted: 4 Mar 2012 03:07pm
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If you are going to PA, and time to build is not in the cards, perhaps having shawnee drop a structure in place might be a way to go..lay a bed of level stone and set the structure on its treated skids on the bed..
http://www.shawneestructures.com/camping-price.html
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