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carcrossguy
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2011 07:23pm
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I noticed that most cabins are built using conventional lumber even though the property might have 10 acres of trees. I was thinking of building log cabin but wonder why people dont use the raw material on their property. Lumber is pretty expensive.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2011 09:52pm
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Maybe they don't have the right type of wood,enough land or trees,or they don't know how to build with log.
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Nirky
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2011 03:25am
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I think log lifting presents the biggest hurdle in most people's minds when they contemplate building a log cabin/home.
Fortunately in reality this is not much of a hurdle, anyone with pulleys, a truck, and a buddy can fairly easily place even heavy logs to roof level.
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larry
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2011 09:49am
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for me it was just a matter of time. i can always make more money but i can't turn back time.
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TomChum
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2011 11:04am - Edited by: TomChum
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- Because its a lost art. Try and find someone who will stick with the job for the duration you'll see. If they're good, they are already working at a log home builder, making $750,000 lodges. You have to find someone who wants to be involved, almost as a hobby.
- You need the right kind of trees. The right size too, and be willing to cut them. Ponderosa pine, for example cannot be exposed to weather, it will last just a few years. They make better shade trees.
- it takes at least a year to prepare the logs. You have to cut them in the springtime when the sap is running (so the bark peels easily) then dry them for 1 year. And you have to cut some percentage more than you need because there is a year lagtime.
- its so much faster and cheaper to buy sticks and OSB at home depot.
- The way builders think now, is in terms of whats on the shelf at the store, and what will pass 'code' for inspection. If you are planning to get a building permit, be prepared to have many many hours wasted by the building dept. No contractor has that much time allotted for that kind of waste - only the ownerbuilder can absorb such waste.
- Other stuff mentioned, like lifting logs to the rooftop. We used an excavator. In the old days they used ramps and pulleys, but at $40+h wages of today, thats almost as costly as heavy equip which can do so much more, like roadbuilding and septic etc.
If you've got the time to do this, I encourage you! I wanted to do this with my own logs, but I but found a guy who has the logs already dry so bought them. It ckst a lot more than sticks at Home Depot.
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johng
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2011 11:06am
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Unless you have a lot of standing dead timber, you would have to cut the trees and let them lay there drying out for a few years.
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Malamute
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2011 12:04pm - Edited by: Malamute
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Who said pine doesn't last? I think most of the log work done is with some variety of pine. In wet climates it may need more care, but I've never treated the outside of any cabin I've built with pine in the dry climate I live in. I love the way they age out naturally. There's many old cabins still in existance in this area, some up to 100 years old. So long as a roof was kept on them, and not in contact with the dirt, they do pretty well. I doubt most of the old ones ever had anything done to them as far as preservative treatment. Keeping larger cracks on the uphill side of each log sealed is good, or keep them turned downwards when building is the simplest way to keep water from accumulating in them.
No trees right where I've built, so I buy dead standing, dry trees. They're good to go to start working right away. I havent had much shrinkage. I leave about 1 1/2" settling room above doors and windows, and its been plenty.
I see no reason not to use native trees on a lot if there were enough of them of the right size and type. Log work isnt as mysterious and difficult as many would think. Look at old places and you'll quickly see there was a wide variety of styles and skill levels.
I believe those using green trees would cut and stack one season, and perhaps peel them or peel in two lines to help them dry, to help keep checking on those lines, and build the next season. Requirs more settling space above doors and windows to use green, but it certainly can be done. Small cabins arent as difficult to deal with green logs and settling.
I've built hand winch tripod frames to lift logs. I never had to lift a log by brute force when I used the frame. It would roll on the floor to move it around. I used a rope come-a-long winch for the lifting. Worked great. Pole or board ramps and a hand winch would work fine also.
Cost of the logs varies by size here. I've paid between $2-$4 per lineal foot for Lodgepole Pine.
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TomChum
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2011 12:29pm - Edited by: TomChum
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A good way to start is to build your shed first, then with that learned start on your cabin. I wish I had the time to do this, and would have enjoyed doing it 'by hand', especially figuring out how to lift stuff. But I think that if you weren't living at the site it would take a LOT more weekends than stick-built, like 5x as long. And this is AFTER all the selecting, felling, limbing, dragging, peeling, stacking, drying. But I think too, if done right, it results in a really satisfying cabin. I like rustic.
I was told to avoid Ponderosa pine - if fir is available. Builder pointed out some Douglas fir and ponderosa pine stumps on my property from logging 13 years ago. Many fir stumps still firm but in same time and conditions the pine stumps were just a shell of bark. In any case you want to KNOW what your best logs are for what you can get, and what lasts in your area. I suppose Lodgepole pine got its name from being a suitable building material.
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Nirky
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2011 12:51pm
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A 40x40 going up in western Washington. I believe it is pine.
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soundandfurycabin
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2011 04:22pm
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Another thing is that not everybody wants the look of a rustic log cabin. Many people are going for more of a cottage aesthetic.
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TomChum
Member
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2011 04:40pm
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I think the OP was asking why not MORE log cabins based on the locations. Many cabins purpose is to be a retreat not a money pit or art project. If I didn't find my log cabin builder, my next choice would be board&batten, (for a lot less $!). It would be easier to add onto.....
I like "Rustic" ;-)
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smitty
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2011 05:40pm
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I would say.. Skill has a lot to do with it..
That and it's hard work. Building is hard enough work for a couple of novices. Most of us are novice builders. I can remodel, and build things, but cutting down tall trees, and preparing them, and building with them, is beyond my skill level.
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mrmiji
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2011 05:50pm
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Quoting: larry i can always make more money but i can't turn back time.
This logic drives many of my ranch decisions.
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carcrossguy
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2011 01:44am
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I thought most people were trying to do this without spending a lot of cash. I thought people would exploit the free logs on their properties or look for properties with timber and avoid the cash outlay of buying lumber. Maybe people are not in good physical condition. I guess I used to be lazy too but got into marathons and stuff.
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smitty
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2011 03:20am
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I think you are putting everybody in the same box.
If that is YOUR goal, and dream, you should absolutely do it.
And post pics so we can watch and cheer you on! :D
Personally I want my part of the forest, to remain a forest. I don't want to cut it down to build a cabin, even if I physically could. It's not what I want.
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fpw
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2011 08:08am
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Time. Find the time. The rest anyone can learn. Peeling, notching, lateral grooves, lifting, and rigging can be figured out by anyone that has the desire.
Building yourself take some effort and the will to stick with it when it gets tough. But it is certainly worth it.
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Kithera
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2011 10:04am
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I'll throw in why I don't like to build with logs. Waste.
It is my opinion that any growing tree should be allowed to grow and I would prefer to have the wooded lot. I also don't believe a log home insulates well, nor is it a particularly good form of thermal mass.
Given the option however, I think I would be interested in using a small portable mill to turn my own logs into dimensional lumber, and then build up with that. That would still give me lots of wall cavities to fill with more effective insulation and a more reasonable amount of heavy lumber work.
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Montanan
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2011 11:20am
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Our cabin is pine- from within the state, but not our property. We don't have big enough trees for the large log look we chose. We do have a TON of trees on our property, and plenty of dead standing timber. It's all lodgepole though, so most of the trees are tall and very spindly. However, we are going to source from our timber to build a shed as an experiment (as TomChum suggested.) Assuming that goes well, we are going to use some of the timber that was cut to excavate our site and road to build an addition onto our cabin...some years down the road.
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Malamute
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2011 11:39am - Edited by: Malamute
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I can agree that log isnt necesarily as "efficient" as a well insulated frame structure, but I haven't had any trouble keeping the cabins I've lived in warm at 20 below, so I'm OK with that aspect. Asking around, I havent been able to tell much difference in the amount of firewood that people in log cabins and frame houses use over a winter. There may be some difference, but I havent found much variation in the people I've asked in general.
It depends on the logs, but using dead standing dry logs isnt really wasteful, most dry dead standing logs aren't usually used for lumber (according to the mill guys I've talked to), they already have cracks that don't make good lumber, so really, you're gleaning logs that wouldn't be used for lumber and making good use of them.
Just my rationalization, and I'm sticking to it,... :)
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TomChum
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2011 12:15pm - Edited by: TomChum
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Well, regarding summer comfort. My log cabin stays a nice cool 68 degrees even though its 85 outside... I might like this thermal mass thing. I tend to defend log cabins because I'm infatuated with one ;-)
And regarding waste..... Trees make wood out of dirt and the trees are doing it right now. Not using them for your shelter is something like saving milk by not milking the cow. There is nothing wrong using trees to create durable shelter, especially if you can do so without upsetting the ecology. In my case I can hear a slight rumble as they shoot out of the ground. I have to thin them near the cabin for fire protection. I do understand not wanting to cut them, I like pristine forest and trails.
I think relatively few people have the time and patience to build with the wood from the land. With stamina, you will either finish sooner or build larger. I wish I could have done it, and envy your energy. I think you will have to live on your land ( like in a camper) to do this and work many long days, but you will be very satisfied when done.
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Kithera
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# Posted: 23 Aug 2011 12:02pm
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Quoting: TomChum Well, regarding summer comfort. My log cabin stays a nice cool 68 degrees even though its 85 outside... I might like this thermal mass thing.
Do you have much issue with condensation?
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TomChum
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# Posted: 23 Aug 2011 01:17pm - Edited by: TomChum
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Hmmmm. Interesting thought - have not detected any condensation but will pay attention.
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Malamute
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# Posted: 25 Aug 2011 08:10pm - Edited by: Malamute
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True, but scribing corner notches isnt that difficult, and makes a far superior building than butt and pass. It looks like the entire forum is dedicated to a class business promoting a certain type of construction. Their rules for who can take their classes (or not take their classes) seem pretty extreme. Calling anyone that works for an inspection dept the enemy, and they don't want them to know any of their building techniques, saying anyone that has started a cabin in any other method has already made too many mistakes to be helped, and everyone has to sign a statement that if they violated any of their rules for taking a class, they will pay a $50k penalty.
Wow. Just. Wow.
Yes, sounds pretty extreme to me.
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PlicketyCat
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# Posted: 27 Aug 2011 03:20pm
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I'm in the middle of acres and acres of boreal forest, so there are trees all around me. Why didn't I build a log cabin?
- There weren't enough trees of adequate size on my property
- Trees of adequate building size are HEAVY. It's just the two of us and we can't get much heavy machinery back here.
- We couldn't afford the time to hunt for the right trees, fell them, haul them to the site, peel them, stack them and then wait another year for them to season.
- Most log cabins don't appeal to me. Ok for a retreat, but not what I want to live in full time.
However, I do have some pole structure outbuildings made from logs, and I plan to make the half-walls in our outdoor kitchen from cordwood. So a log cabin isn't the only way to build with trees on your property ;)
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 16 Sep 2011 06:15pm
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Quoting: TomChum You have to cut them in the springtime when the sap is running (so the bark peels easily) then dry them for 1 year. And you have to cut some percentage more than you need because there is a year lagtime.
Tom, the log home builders association says cut in the winter so there is no sap. Or they leech for a long time.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 16 Sep 2011 06:21pm
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Quoting: Montanan Our cabin is pine- from within the state, but not our property. We don't have big enough trees for the large log look we chose. We do have a TON of trees on our property, and plenty of dead standing timber. It's all lodgepole though, so most of the trees are tall and very spindly. However, we are going to source from our timber to build a shed as an experiment (as TomChum suggested.) Assuming that goes well, we are going to use some of the timber that was cut to excavate our site and road to build an addition onto our cabin...some years down the road.
Quoting: TomChum You have to cut them in the springtime when the sap is running (so the bark peels easily) then dry them for 1 year. And you have to cut some percentage more than you need because there is a year lagtime.
Tom, the log home builders association says cut in the winter so there is no sap. Or they leech for a long time.
Montanan, if you are going to use the "butt/pass method, it makes it go much quicker. Lock tyhe locks in pplace int he corners with a chunk of rebar in a hole. You might want to look into attending a log home builders association seminar. I have contemplated doing it.
I did build a 8X12 log cabin small shop way back in the 70's and we used all native timer. Douglas fir, hand peeled everything and notched all the corners. I took us all summer and the bark peeling pile was monsterous. We burned it when it dried out.
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PlicketyCat
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# Posted: 16 Sep 2011 07:30pm
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Ah, the old Spring or Fall debate :D We have that up here as well. Some folks swear it's best to cut in the late fall/early winter when the sap is down; others swear it's best to cut in the late winter/early spring when the sap is rising. Either way, peeling logs when they aren't fresh cut is a serious PITA. If you don't get them fresh, you'll have to wait until they're fully seasoned and hope the bark falls off them... otherwise it's stuck on there like concrete!
Personally, I think when you cut trees and what purpose depends a lot on where you live, the tree species and the climate. With the spruce and weather we have up here, it's best to cut for firewood in the winter since it's drier and you don't care about the bark. But for cabins and peeling logs, it's best to cut in the spring so the bark will come off easier and then let them dry naked all year until the next year's building season.
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TomChum
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2011 10:19pm - Edited by: TomChum
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Hi TMT
I saw that butt-pass method. It does look easier, but i've seen lots of cabins built like that and much prefer the hand-scribed look. For some reason it looks like a machined-log cabin, something's not right about it. I think if you are going to subject yourself to the punishment of logs, it should at least have the right 'look'. I suspect the 'loghomebuilders' folks are tired of hearing that.
I've never built a cabin myself. I've watched a lot of it though. I intend to build a shower-shack, possibly with small doug fir logs (4-5"), which I have thickets of. They are all tight grain, really nice wood; struggling to grow because they're too tight.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2016 04:49pm - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Quoting: Nirky A 40x40 going up in western Washington. I believe it is pine.
Nirky, you attend the Onalaska log home building class? I recognize that set up. 
Is that located near Satsop?
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Mike 870
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2016 09:10pm
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For me its a couple of reasons. It's incredibly labor intensive. Logs have poor insulating qualities. I prefer the look of stick framed structures.
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