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paulz
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# Posted: 24 Apr 2024 10:36am
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Dealing with this plugged ATV carb, plus a couple old chainsaws I’ve been playing with has me wondering about modern ethanol gas in stuff that sits around. What do you do?
A) drain after use each time? Easy enough to do if accessible but the generator that lives in my shop for example may go two months without use and I want it ready to go if I need it, not have to hunt down gas and a funnel.
B) Additive that will keep the pump gas alive longer?
C) Non ethanol fuel? Available here at saw shops but ain’t cheap.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 24 Apr 2024 11:15am - Edited by: gcrank1
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If you don't drain and run until 'dry' you need the fancy expensive fuel (think they say good for a couple years?). For stuff that gets run sorta regularly, even every couple months, I like non-eth Prem, just a bit in the tank has been ok, not full. I run until it is through the system and park it. When I go to use I start up and add enough ethanol-blend regular for the job Im doing, or even run out, then add the Prem to finish.
A rarely used one of mine is the pressure washer. I drain and run empty; seems to do the trick. My dad left eth-blend reg in it and removing the carb and cleaning it was Miserable!
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FishHog
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# Posted: 24 Apr 2024 12:08pm
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that canned fuel doesn't run the best in a lot of equipment, but it does store well. Expensive yes.
So use it for long term storage if your not draining the system. Don't need a lot, just drain the tank, add some canned stuff, run for a few minutes and shut off.
When you need to use it, just use what gas you can get, and use it all or drain it out and repeat.
Ethanol is horrible and should be banned from fuel, but people seem to think they are saving the world. Not really the case but sounds good if you don't dig into the downsides.
If you can get Rec fuel (ethanol free), treat with stabil and easily will be fine for a year. Next to impossible to find anymore in canada, but I can get it in Michigan.
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spencerin
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# Posted: 24 Apr 2024 01:11pm
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Stabilize it. The gas will be good for at least 1 year, no need to drain it as a result unless it'll be sitting for longer. But, make sure that the stabilized fuel has been run through the system first - don't dump the additive in and then store it without firing it up.....
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Brettny
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# Posted: 24 Apr 2024 03:01pm
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I use E0 fuel available at the pump in the next county over. Il drive 30min one way for fuel before I put E10 in my stuff. I only use E0 in 2strokes or things like snowmobiles or log splitters that sit a long time.
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Grizzlyman
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# Posted: 24 Apr 2024 03:28pm
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My opinion …but you have to use 91 or better in small engines. IMO for the small volume of gas you’re buying it’s worth the extra $2 to have fewer issues.Small carbs are too finicky to mess around with anything that can gunk them up. .
I had a friend who was a small engine wizard that told me this is the key to best long term performance
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darz5150
Member
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# Posted: 24 Apr 2024 03:40pm
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Any thoughts on adding octane booster?
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FishHog
Member
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# Posted: 24 Apr 2024 03:55pm
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Quoting: spencerin Stabilize it. The gas will be good for at least 1 year, no need to drain it as a result unless it'll be sitting for longer. But, make sure that the stabilized fuel has been run through the system first - don't dump the additive in and then store it without firing it up.....
Yes, if you start with non ethanol fuel. If it contains ethanol (unless you live in a very dry climate), good luck with that.
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FishHog
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# Posted: 24 Apr 2024 03:56pm
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Quoting: darz5150 Any thoughts on adding octane booster?
My thought is "don't waste your money", they do very little. When they claim they increase by 3 points, that really means taking your 87 octane to 87.3, not to 90.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 24 Apr 2024 06:56pm
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Hmmm
https://b3cfuel.com/product/ethanol-shield/
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Fanman
Member
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# Posted: 24 Apr 2024 09:06pm
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I run 100LL avgas (aviation fuel) in all my small engines. No ethanol, keeps for 2+ years.
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ICC
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# Posted: 24 Apr 2024 11:59pm - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: Fanman I run 100LL avgas
Me too. Just don't get careless and run it thru anything with a catalytic converter, as even tho it is Low Lead it can eventually kill a cat
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FishHog
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2024 05:19am
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Some people highly recommend that but there was a YouTube channel that did a year long experiment with a dozen or so new engines with every treatment brand and the results were less than impressive for all of them
If I can’t get e free fuel I will not leave it in an engine anymore. Do the draining up front or clean the carb later.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2024 06:48am
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Quoting: Grizzlyman IMO for the small volume of gas you’re buying it’s worth the extra $2 to have fewer issues.Small carbs are too finicky to mess around with anything that can gunk them up
I find this to be true. I have 2 stroke stuff like my 55cc chainsaw that I bought new 8yrs ago and it's never even had the carb off. I cut 4+cord a year and dont cut wood late spring-early fall.
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Tim_Ohio
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2024 09:18am - Edited by: Tim_Ohio
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I second using Stabil. Since doing this, I've had no problems. My method is to just put the required amount in the empty fuel container, then pump gas (yes, ethanol blend) into the container to mix. If done every time, then you are covered for whatever you put it in. If done every time, then small containers mixed with 2-stroke oil will be covered. If done every time, then you don't have to think about what isn't covered that might sit around awhile. It's also necessary to keep track of the age of the Stabil. The most life of the fuel will be attributed to fresh Stabil. I believe it is from the day the container is opened and exposed to air.
A second line of protection is to have fuel shut-off valves that can be closed. For anything that sits around for long periods, run the engine until it stalls out, having burned all or most fuel in the bowl. I notice that manufacturers have wised up on this. My new inverter generator has a gas cap that you open and close. It also has a feature where the "on" switch coordinates with a setting to run until the fuel is used in the bowl.
If you want real life proof of how this stuff works, "Taryl Fixes All" does a pretty good test with new engines over months. What performed best was pure gasoline ( if you can get it...usually only at marinas) and ethanol blend mixed with Stabil fuel additive.
Best of luck. I'm happy with using the additive, maybe you will be too.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2024 09:25am
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2 strokes are a different beast... The added oil seems to naturally stabilize the fuel. At least for shorter periods. My 2 stroke equipment starts fine after a winter storage (4-6 months).
but 4 strokes (with a carb) are fairly easy to "put away". All the 4 strokes I have come across have a drain on the carb bowl. There is also a procedure to get to that drain, but its often not printed in a manual. Once you figure it out, then draining the carb bowl and isolating the fuel tank (fuel off to the carb, and vents closed) will allow storage for a VERY long time. I have stored a generator like that for over 2 years and it fired right up after turning the fuel on and pulling the rope a few times.
For my gear, I switch the fuel off and run the until till it dies. Then I drain the carb bowl of the last bit of fuel (about a teaspoon). Turn the vent off on the fuel tank (if there is a vent). You can now store for short or long periods of time.
Some theories say you should fill the tank as full as possible too. This reduces the amount of air in the tank (less air, means less moisture and less oxidation). However, as long as there is a vent open the expansion and contraction will cause air/moisture to be sucked in.
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paulz
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2024 09:42am
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Quoting: Tim_Ohio ed best was pure gasoline ( if you can get it...usually only at marinas) and
Marina, good idea, I need to call around. I used to get avgas at the local airport but last time a couple years ago they said the FAA came down on them, has to be pumped into a plane.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2024 09:57am
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Quoting: paulz Marina, good idea, I need to call around. I used to get avgas at the local airport but last time a couple years ago they said the FAA came down on them, has to be pumped into a plane.
There are youtube videos on how to remove ethanol from gasoline. Its a pretty easy procedure, but I wouldn't want to do it for anything more than a few gallons.
Just an FYI, I ran ethanol added fuel in our dinghy tank for the 5 years we lived on our boat. I used the procedure above and never had a single issue. Used the same fuel in our Honda generator as well (without issues).
The only time we had an issue was when our son left the vent on the tank open in a torrential storm. You would be shocked how much water can get in through that little hole (1/4 tank of water in a 5 gal tank).
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paulz
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# Posted: 28 Apr 2024 11:27am
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Quoting: travellerw There are youtube videos on how to remove ethanol from gasoline. Its a pretty easy procedure, but I wouldn't want to do it for anything more than a few gallons.
My pal tells me I used to do this (I’ve lost much of my memory)! Yeah, pretty easy, just add water, shake, sit, separate. So what’s it buy you? No water corrosion for one thing. Easier starting, since no water in the jets? Gas lasts longer?
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 28 Apr 2024 04:22pm - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Paul, ethanol free fuel is the only way to roll.
You can buy it at Home Depot or Stihl shops, its a 1 gallon gas can or 1 qt, get spendy. I buy it at the gas pump for my 4 strokes, ie Kawasaki Mule, my lawnmowers etc. You can locate E0 by going to
pure-gas.org
Also, any marina will sell ethanol fuel or any airport.
I buy the premixed canned fuel for my 2 strokes.
If you buy pump E0 add fuel stabilizers also. The canned stuff already has this in it.
If you want good long term storage, drain carb bowl out, spray it with some CRC so no oxidation. You can spray it into carb vent hose too.
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Fanman
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# Posted: 29 Apr 2024 08:11am
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Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech Also, any marina will sell ethanol fuel or any airport.
Depends on what state you're in. In CT, for example, all fuel sold (except for avgas, of course) must be oxygenated... which almost always means ethanol. A few marinas sell fuel with isobutanol instead of ethanol, but they're very few.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 29 Apr 2024 12:01pm
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Im glad to have non-eth premium at our local stations here in sc Wis. The BP is our go-to (we are on their 15c/gal discount plan). Fwiw, the premium is about $1 more per gal than the eth-blend reg; about $4.39 now.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2024 10:31am
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Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech You can locate E0 by going to pure-gas.org
Thanks. Yeah a couple places close enough, need to call.
Turns out the local Harbor Freight has a selection of additives, also premix by STP. Cheap enough to run in saws.
https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=fuel&category=2082%2C2173¤t=1
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FishHog
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# Posted: 1 May 2024 07:22am
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Just watch for poor running with premix. Some engines just hate the stuff. Then they start adjusting and have even more issues.
It’s great for storing but not great running.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 1 May 2024 08:49am
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With any 'stored gas' engine I get it running and add fresh gas asap.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 6 May 2024 12:21am
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Little off topic, sorry, but hey it’s my thread lol. Today at the auto parts store were pallets of diesel additive, DEF or something. I know newer diesels have to use this stuff, what exactly is it? I have two diesel tractors but they are 50+ years old.
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jsahara24
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# Posted: 6 May 2024 12:02pm
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I believe its the same thing as urea fertilizer...my tractor is also old so I haven't had to actually use it before.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 6 May 2024 12:44pm
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Quoting: paulz Little off topic, sorry, but hey it’s my thread lol. Today at the auto parts store were pallets of diesel additive, DEF or something. I know newer diesels have to use this stuff, what exactly is it? I have two diesel tractors but they are 50+ years old.
Paul, truckers call it cat piss. Urea, its injected into the diesel particulate filter when pressure sensors detect its clogging up, used to burn them out or clean them.
Complicated system and no shortage of troubles with them either.
Any tractor under 26HP isnt required to have this system.
My 2010 RAM 2500 has a particulate filter, but uses no urea, mine uses its own diesel fuel, extra shot into the cylinder during the exhaust stroke to blow a bunch of raw fuel into the filter to burn off the soot. All systems have went to urea now.
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paulz
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# Posted: 6 May 2024 01:34pm
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Thanks tmt. Glad I don’t have to deal with that in addition to ethanol. Looks like they sell a ton of it, at least on the west coast.
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shingobeek
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# Posted: 6 May 2024 04:40pm
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91 octane, no ethanol with stabil.....for me this has worked on small saws, to large 100hp outboards.....
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