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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2022 02:55pm
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Plan to head up to the cabin this weekend to wrap up wall construction and some more wiring inside the cabin. I'm thinking about adding either an electric wall heater or a baseboard heater...for sure in the bedroom, to help with getting the place warm in winters since the pellet stove is on the other end of the cabin.
Any opinions on either that i should consider? Leaning towards 120V...even though the bedroom is only 10x10 and on it's own 20amp circuit, i'm thinking the heater would be on it's own line.
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Nate R
Member
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2022 03:34pm - Edited by: Nate R
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I have a 3KW wall heater in our main room right now. I also ran 14-3 wire to 2 boxes so I could add more 120 or 240v heaters if I desire. I'll decide that when the bedroom is fully walled off, and see how cold it is in there. Not sure if we'd add another wall heater in there or baseboard....
Wall heater: Fast, instant heat production has been nice. Downside is while relatively quiet, it does make some noise from the fans. And more likely I think to conk out over time. (More moving parts, for example.)
I did a separate thermostat on the wall for better temp control. I stayed away from the Broans after reading reviews. I went with Cadet: https://www.menards.com/main/heating-cooling/heaters/electric-wall-heaters/cadet-240v -white-electric-wall-heater-unit/67526/p-1444426130923.htm
Baseboard: Hot surfaces, takes up more wall space than the wall heater, and collects dust in the fins more easily. But easier to sleep near! But probably takes a bit longer to heat up the space with no forced air.
Hydronic/Oil Filled baseboard: Longer length for same watts, but lower surface temps (doesn't singe the dust, burn your hands, etc... Menards sells the Cadet SoftHeat brand.) But also will take longer to heat up.
You also could look at cove heaters: They mount high up on the wall and thus furniture placement isn't as much of an issue as baseboards.
I think you need to chose between quiet, but slower heat delivery, or fast, but noisier for the bedroom. And that depends on whether you need it to keep you warm at night or get the place warm RIGHT NOW when you arrive.
I'd do 240V all the way. Why run 120? ESPECIALLY because you can run 12-2 for a 240V heater circuit, no neutral required! Yes, you need a double pole breaker, but your total electrical loads will be more balanced.
One other note: I ran 12-3 to my 3kw heater....with the thought that if I ever decided to remove that and install a mini-split in its' place (which I would then get AC from too), the neutral is there.
-Nate
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2022 03:49pm
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Well it sounds like (no pun intended) wall heaters are the way to go since i'm deaf at night (literally) and my wife is loosing her hearing due to Meniere's disease.
I was leaning towards this one.
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Nate R
Member
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2022 03:55pm - Edited by: Nate R
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For keeping just the the bedroom warmer, I'd think that one would work great! Built in, more precise thermostat, and a fan that slows down when the temp difference is small? Seems like a win....keeps things simpler than my setup.
And I'd think 1000W would be enough for an insulated bedroom.
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jsahara24
Member
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2022 04:21pm
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I have a regular 6' baseboard heater in my bedroom at camp, plenty of heat for my 12x10 bedroom in a cold climate. I would recommend 240V to keep your wire size to a minimum. Can't really go wrong with any of them in my opinion, and I agree its a good idea to install one for initial warmup and those really cold nights.
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Irrigation Guy
Member
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2022 05:21pm
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I put this one in my room as a back up. It heats fine but the fan has started to become sticky when it hasn’t been used in a while and requires smacking with my hand to get it moving which is not good. The noise isn’t bothersome when it’s on but sometimes the cycling on and off disturbs me because I sleep lighter there.
Broan Wall Heater, White Grille Heater with Built-In Adjustable Thermostat, 750/1500W, 120/240V AC https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002YTLBI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apip_ISQZooLOCns7e
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snobdds
Member
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2022 05:30pm
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The radiant/convection wall panels are pretty neat. Simple instal.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2022 06:22pm
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I like the radiant wall panel heaters a lot IF one does not need or want to heat a space from cold to warmer as quickly as possible. For rapid heating a fan helps a lot. Radiant panel wall heaters have one big plus, for me. Most heaters have metal parts that expand when heated and contract when cooling. That does result in a slight "metal creaking" noise accompanying the heating/cooling phase. The radiant panels don't do that. Some of them have front cover panels that can be painted available.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2022 09:02pm
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Once a fan gets 'sticky' or slow to spool up you need to take it out, pull apart and lube the now dry sleeve bearings or better yet replace with a ball bearing fan.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2022 05:02am
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I dont think 1,000w is going to be enough to heat up a 10x10 room from say 30*f to 70*f. That's alot of heating load to heat up everything in the room.
Why not buy a cheap plug in 1500w heater and test it out? I believe there about $25. How ever even two 1,500w heaters are going to take for ever to heat your building up from freezing.
The pellet stove prob takes 1hr before it's really kicking out heat right?
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2022 08:15am
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If i wire up the one i've linked above as 240, it actually is rated at 1600 watts then. Since this heater will be on an inside wall and less than a couple feet from the panel in the bedroom, i guess i might as well sacrifice the extra slot in the panel and wire it for 240.
In the floorplan photo the green rectangle represents the pellet stove. The pink cirlce is a ceiling fan that i'll put in which will be around 12-15' up from the floor. The dark blue box in the bedroom is the in wall heater we're talking about here. The dotted red line shows the loft that's above the bedroom/bathroom area. The light blue box on the left is an idea i have to circulate the air from the loft, through the bedroom and through the bedroom door out to the main area. Figure i can put a floor register in the loft floor and then into the bedroom ceiling with an inline fan.
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Nate R
Member
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2022 08:15am - Edited by: Nate R
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So far, when I arrive at my place, I'm starting my 3KW heater, a 1500w space heater, and then my small wood stove maybe 1/2 hr later once I get my stuff walked/transported inside. Within 2 hours of arrival, I'm going from 20-30 degrees to 60s (air temp.) It does take a while for the "stuff" to get the chill out, and I have a huge heat sink of a concrete slab that Willie does not have.
Yes, the 1000w heater won't quickly heat the room on its own entirely, but my rough math says it can handle taking it up 40 deg.
OTOH, going to the 240V 1600 watt version will help heat things up quickly. 1600W for 100 SF with a standard ceiling height vs the 4500W I'm using for 520 SF will do nicely.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2022 08:22am
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Wheres the pannel in that drawing?
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jsahara24
Member
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2022 08:38am - Edited by: jsahara24
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I'm getting about 10*F of temp rise per hour in my 10x12 bedroom, from a standard 6' baseboard heater, 1500 watts.
This makes leaving for camp after work and arriving at 9pm pretty rough when the temps are well below freezing. I usually wake up sweating bc I went to bed fully clothed with long johns.
What I normally do now is run my 60k BTU propane torpedo for an hour and that gets the job done.
My next plan is to get some WIFI t-stats installed so I can get the heat going before my arrival.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2022 09:14am
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Quoting: Brettny Wheres the pannel in that drawing?
Half way between the dark blue rectangle and the corner.
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Nobadays
Member
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2022 09:33am
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Is that pocket door going to interfere with wiring/hanging that heater? The one you linked is recessed I think.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2022 09:44am
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That's an old floorplan drawing i had handy, it's going to be a regular hinged door that'll be hinged on the left as your going into the room.
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Nate R
Member
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2022 10:20am
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Quoting: jsahara24 I'm getting about 10*F of temp rise per hour in my 10x12 bedroom, from a standard 6' baseboard heater, 1500 watts. This makes leaving for camp after work and arriving at 9pm pretty rough when the temps are well below freezing. I usually wake up sweating bc I went to bed fully clothed with long johns. What I normally do now is run my 60k BTU propane torpedo for an hour and that gets the job done. My next plan is to get some WIFI t-stats installed so I can get the heat going before my arrival.
We've been using an electric blanket as well the first night. Our foam mattress is like a BRICK when it's cold, so this helps heat it up and keeps us warm that first night. 2nd night, finding we don't need it at all. Helps keep us from waking up too warm the first night!
I'm also hoping to do a Wifi Tstat this year, but I need internet access first. I'm told that they'll be putting a new line in on our road this year....fingers crossed that happens, as I'll IMMEDIATELY be on board for that service! Being able to WFH from the cabin, or monitor a remote camera, or, turn on the electric heat hours ahead of time will be game changers!
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jsahara24
Member
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2022 12:47pm - Edited by: jsahara24
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Electric blanket is a good idea, just added it to my "wants" list...haha.. Thanks..
As for Wifi, it is awesome....They ran cable internet down my road last year and I jumped on it. Installed 4 cameras, have been working from up there to extend my trips and now I need to figure out how to install a tstat in a line voltage heater and in my pellet stove.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2022 12:51pm
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Quoting: Nate R Our foam mattress is like a BRICK when it's cold
That's what we have in the camper and it is like a block of ice when i go up in winter. Good point on the electric blanket as a way to take the chill out of it.
I wish we had internet up by us, probably not as much as my 15yr old son, but it would be nice primarily from the camera perspective and to be able to watch TV when the weather is crappy. Neighbor just installed Starlink, so i decided to sign up...don't know when i'll ever see it though.
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jsahara24
Member
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2022 12:56pm
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Quoting: WILL1E Neighbor just installed Starlink, so i decided to sign up
I have starlink at my house as we don't have internet there, kinda backwards as we have it at the cabin. Anyway, its awesome. Total gamechanger from hughesnet which we had before, which was almost worthless.
I'm not sure how their supply is, but I got in the beta testing period. It has continued to improve over the last year, and I have no issue running ACAD remotely which is very nice.
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Nate R
Member
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2022 01:04pm - Edited by: Nate R
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Quoting: jsahara24 now I need to figure out how to install a tstat in a line voltage heater and in my pellet stove.
I added a 3KW heater to my garage at home this year, too. I found for line voltage, there's this: https://king-electric.com/product/model-hoot-wifi/ which does allow you to turn off completely, but $300. But better reviews than the others I found.
Instead, I bought a WIFI switch that just cuts the power between the panel and the room t-stat. $70, so far working great. Can turn it on/off manually or on a schedule. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08VRJSH5Z
120V Wifi switches are cheaper and easier to find.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2022 01:10pm
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So i run 240V and use 12-2 wire, I would use a 20amp breaker right?
The manual for the heater says it's only pulling 6.7amps for 240...any reason i couldn't do 14-2 and a 15amp 240 breaker?
I have plenty of both wire on hand, just wondering what would drive me one way vs. the other.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2022 01:12pm
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Any reason why i couldn't use a tandem breaker and run 240 so that i only use up 1 space in the panel?
https://www.menards.com/main/electrical/circuit-protection-power-distribution/circuit -breakers/eaton-reg-1-pole-type-br-tandem-circuit-breaker/bd1515/p-1444429546104-c-14 89583170892.htm?tid=1567064564026170448&ipos=4
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jsahara24
Member
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2022 01:26pm
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thanks for the tstat recomendations, i'll look into them...
Yes you can use 14 gauge if you're only pulling 7 amps.
You shouldn't use a tandem breaker, the DP breakers shut off together and it will cause confusion for anyone other than yourself in the future. And not pass code....
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Nate R
Member
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2022 01:49pm
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Yep, use a double pole. You could put another 1600W heater on that circuit if you decided.....
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Nate R
Member
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2022 02:13pm
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Willie, how many box spaces do you have? 14?
How many circuits are you planning on needing/running?
I'm using up 10 spaces right now, FWIW.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2022 03:17pm - Edited by: WILL1E
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The panel has 16 spots, but only 14 are useable. The 2 spots to the right of the main are not useable.
This is an old photo and doesn't have the living room lights on it yet. There will be a bedroom circuit (plan to put single ceiling light and outlets together), bedroom heater (2 pole), loft lights, and outside outlets/lights. So i'll have 4 left for the bathroom and kitchen circuits.
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happilyretired
Member
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2022 04:21pm
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We just bought our cabin last winter and when we went there in spring it took well over 2 hours to warm up from 7C to 18C using the baseboard heaters. Plus the wall AC unit, although it works, it's very old and loud, and only has off, low, hi settings. We can live with what's there but don't want to. We want comfort and convenience.
So, we're splurging on a mini split for quiet AC and faster heat gain. I expect to do all or at least most of the install myself which should save money.
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jsahara24
Member
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2022 04:49pm
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Quoting: WILL1E So i'll have 4 left for the bathroom and kitchen circuits.
You can always use those tandem breakers for the kitchen/bath if you need an extra one...
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