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optimistic
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2021 07:00pm
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Hey all,
We had quite an experience this cabin trip. For the first time someone just walked up to us on our land (16 acres) and introduced himself. I believe it is the guy I saw on my camera a few months ago but I didn't want to ask him obviously...
An odd fella but nice. He bought the house next door. Anyhow - he offered to provide us with power. Obviously who knows if this will really happen but - if it is...
How far can I run a wire from his panel? Anyone ever run some really really long wire. I will look at satellite images today and calculate the distance but he can be over 3000ft... Is it something doable? Keep in mind my cabin uses at most 1800watts so I don't need much power
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Just
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2021 07:33pm
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I once ran a 2/ 14 1000 ft. To power 4 light bulbs(300 watts) above ground tempory .It would blow the breaker often..
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Nate R
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2021 07:36pm
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I think your biggest issue will be wire cost vs voltage drop.
How far you can run a wire depends on what voltage his panels are putting out, what voltage you need on your end, and how much you want to spend on wire.
3000 feet of 12 awg solar cable is going to run like $2500. $1800 for 3K ft of 14/2 direct bury cable.....
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ICC
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2021 09:13pm
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Would this be transmitting DC voltage power direct from solar panels to your charge controller and batteries, or would it be running 120 or 240 volt AC voltage power?
Is the 1800 watts you mention measured at 120 volts AC, which is a 15 amp current draw or what?
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optimistic
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2021 09:25pm
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Sorry for the confusion. He has grid tie power. AC. I'll be putting a circuit breaker in his circuit breaker panel and run ac from there to me.
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ICC
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2021 10:19pm - Edited by: ICC
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Ah, run wire from his AC service panel! This will likely be impractical but.....
... you can use a voltage drop calculator. Southside has one of many available online.
https://www.southwire.com/calculator-vdrop
Leave the defaults on the left alone for now.. On the right you solve for the required minimum wire size or the maximum distance that a particular wire size would do.
If you enter some hypotheticals you can learn a lot. Standard voltage for a utility circuit would be 120. Allowable voltage drop 3%. Leave the parallels at 1. Try different amps, distances and wire sizes.
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paulz
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# Posted: 27 Dec 2021 08:10am
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480v transformers and 6awg would do it..
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Nate R
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# Posted: 27 Dec 2021 09:22am
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Yeah, that's what I was going to say about stepping up to 480. I assumed when you said panel you meant solar panel.
But yeah, even then you need transformers, and the 6-2 direct bury cable.... Looking at ~$10k from what I see if it's 3,000 feet. Seems you could come up with a solar system for less than that, most likely.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 27 Dec 2021 09:54am
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3000 feet, a nice walk every day to get a 5 gal bucket full of watts to take back 
If you had a simple elec system in the cabin, a small psw inverter, some led lights, usb charger, etc. and 2 x 100ah lfp batteries you could run one and keep the other at his place to recharge, swapping out as needed?
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optimistic
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# Posted: 27 Dec 2021 07:43pm
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Looking at google maps images.... Seems like about 760ft... so a lot better than 3000ft haha
My cabin highest usage is about 1600 watts at 120v. To calculate solar bank for myself (which I didn't get to putting in..) - I put those voltage meters that tracks power usage on my Honda 2000 generator that feeds my cabin to see how much power I use. It gave me total usage and high and low. great little device. I need to find my numbers but it is very low. I can do with 15 amps but to be safe maybe 20amp
I believe I still need 6awg aluminum 1000ft spool and 480v transformer. Then a step down transformer back to 120 - right?
Seems like I can also do 1/0 aluminum at 1000ft without any transformers if I allow for 5% voltage drop. Maybe that is a better way?
I have access to contractor pricing for electrical supplies. I can call tomorrow to see what price they can do for me.
Online I see 900ft 1/0 awg for $1500. So if with renting a trencher for a couple of days I am all in at under $2000 - I will go for it. No more generator, can have cameras there, future pool (can have filter running) and so on. that will be amazing.
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Nobadays
Member
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# Posted: 27 Dec 2021 10:16pm
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Does your neighbor have room for a 240v breaker? Be way better to run 240 to a load center at your cabin, less voltage drop.
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paulz
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# Posted: 28 Dec 2021 06:31am
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Great idea Nobs.
Lucky dog..
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Popeye
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# Posted: 28 Dec 2021 10:05am
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Have you contacted the power company for a quote?
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Brettny
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# Posted: 28 Dec 2021 03:33pm
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Quoting: optimistic Online I see 900ft 1/0 awg for $1500. So if with renting a trencher for a couple of days I am all in at under $2000 - I will go for it. No more generator, can have cameras there, future pool (can have filter running) and so on. that will be amazing
Dont forget that you could spend $2k and someone could just literally flip the switch off on you.
I have about $1300 into our solar setup that runs a mini fridge along with lights. That price also included a $200 inverter generator.
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 28 Dec 2021 07:41pm
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If it were me, I'd politely decline his offer. Doesn't sound like you know him very well, or at all. For your loads, I'd stick with making my own power.
Otherwise, talk to the power company about tapping off the transformer that feeds his house and deal with them directly.
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paulz
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# Posted: 28 Dec 2021 09:04pm
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Quoting: Nobadays Does your neighbor have room for a 240v breaker? Be way better to run 240 to a load center at your cabin, less voltage drop.
Wait, do you really get less voltage drop with 240? An extra hot but for 110 you'd only use one, right?
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 29 Dec 2021 08:47am
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Quoting: paulz Wait, do you really get less voltage drop with 240? An extra hot but for 110 you'd only use one, right?
Yes... using his 760' - 1/0 aluminum - 20amps
240v - 6.08v drop, 2.53%, final voltage 233.92vac
120v - 6.08v drop, 5.06%, final voltage 113.92vac
Same voltage drop but the percentage is over the accepted < 3%
At his end he would hook to both sides of his load center, energizing both bars, so 240v would be available but he could just put 9ne breaker in giving him the 120v. But.... you could be right as in reality he would only be using one leg... scratches head?!! 
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ICC
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# Posted: 29 Dec 2021 09:11am
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Quoting: Nobadays 20amps 240v - 6.08v drop, 2.53%, final voltage 233.92vac 120v - 6.08v drop, 5.06%, final voltage 113.92vac
Yep.
If 240 VAC is actually used at the distant end then there is less than 3% drop
If 120 VAC is used, on either leg, then the drop is just over 5%.
Depending on what is being run 5% drop can be acceptable.
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paulz
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# Posted: 29 Dec 2021 09:20am
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How about a 240 to 120 transformer at his end?
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optimistic
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# Posted: 30 Dec 2021 07:55pm
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Thank you for the comments everyone.
I don't know him at all that is true and I can plunk $1500 on wire and then have him turn it off in the future..
My tiny cabin is off the radar so I do not know any of my neighbors. Which also prevents me from trying to get power from local utility - my cabin is 12x12 and in NY state so.... Well... You know how that goes.
I wonder if I can have utility company put power 400ft away from my cabin so they don't see my cabin and then I tell them I'll hook up an rv there in future. That way no local municipality issue?
Anyone ever tried getting those stand alone meters with a panel in NY state? I wonder how much of a pain it is
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 30 Dec 2021 09:58pm
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Im in WI. Our power company wants/requires a building permit before they even come do an estimate  . Initially all I asked for was a ballpark for x feet, figured that would let me know if I should consider it. No conversation, dead end without paperwork.
I, too, thought RV post that would give me all the options I need, even that requires an RV permit. They run underground to the post which is to their specs, thats all my responsibility/cost. Last summer I talked to a guy down the road doing such, he said the post, service, meter socket, etc cost him about $1200 to do, the power run was on top of that by the foot after a certain number of feet they 'give' you.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 31 Dec 2021 05:54am
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Quoting: optimistic Anyone ever tried getting those stand alone meters with a panel in NY state? I wonder how much of a pain it is
It's not the state, it's the town/county and power company you need to ask.
12x12 may be under the town/counties limit for needing permission or a permit so ask them that too. No point in hiding if theres nothing that needs to be hidden. Ask questions, usualy I would suggest you do this prior to even buying property.
I installed my own pannel in my house and was allowed to, it was inspected and the power company hooked it up with no issues. I'm also in NY.
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optimistic
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# Posted: 3 Jan 2022 04:56pm
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Yeah I learned long ago to ask forgiveness vs permission.
Had this cabin for about 8 years so not rocking any boats.
We'll see if I take him up on it or not. First I will need to wait for public record to hit and see if he is the owner or not. Could be his family.
He was trying to be nice but he was also a bit of aloof
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paulz
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# Posted: 3 Jan 2022 06:23pm
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I got a little nervous after looking at the online voltage drop calculator, AFTER I had just run a whole 250' spool of 12/2 from my cabin to my shop. I tested it last Friday, with also a 50' small gauge extension cord from the outlet I put in at the shop, and a power strip after that, so 300+' for wire. I turned on a 4' led shop light, then another, then another. My wife, up at the cabin watching the inverter, said still no output wattage displayed. I then plugged in a washing machine motor, it now showed 1,200 watts. I then put my volt meter on the power strip, 115v. Forget to check at the inverter, probably 120, so not bad. I doubt I will call on it to do more than that, anything more I'll fire up a genny in the shop.
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 5 Jan 2022 06:12pm
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From everything you've said, I'd go with solar, battery, generator setup. You already have the generator and your loads aren't that high so you don't need a big solar system. Even if the solar is under powered for your needs, it offsets generator run time and gives you more peace in the woods.
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