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lpranger467
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2021 10:46pm
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We are going to build a 24 x 24 cabin in Northern Michigan and I was thinking to maybe build on piers to save money. If I do this how do you bring in water lines and such without them freezing from exposure ? Thanks
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frankpaige
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2021 11:39pm
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You can build in a temperate climate instead. Otherwise you will need to heat them throughout the the winter.
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spencerin
Member
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2021 11:55pm
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Heat tape, pipe insulation, and skirting (insulated also if possible).
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 30 Sep 2021 10:41am
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Our cabin sits at 9500' in the Southern Colorado Rockies, it gets cold here. The cabin is on a pier foundation and the crawlspace is skirted with metal roofing material. Pretty much all of the cracks have been sealed with foam so no daylight/wind can blow under the cabin. All the water pipes are copper and have been installed with a slope like drain lines to 2 valves that can be opened to drain the hot/cold water. In addition all of the pipes are wrapped with the thickest foam pipe wrap making sure all bends are well covered and taped. No heat tapes under the cabin but we do have heat tape in the insulated, outdoor pump "box" to keep the water flowing.... we found it would freeze in there. FWIW, Rodents have not touched the foam pipe insulation. The underside of the floors are sprayed with 4" of closed cell foam but the bottom 8" of the floor joist are exposed... possibly some heat transfer there.
The pipes are always drained if we leave for any length of time in the winter.... weeks/months, a day or two, no but we do turn off the pump.
I monitored the temperature under the cabin last winter, it wasn't a particularly cold winter with the coldest night at -12F. For the most part under the cabin hovered right around 33° - 35°F Even the nights/days it was below 0°F it never got below 28°F which actually surprised me. I think we are getting heat both from the earth and a bit of heat transfer through the floor joist.
I had placed all the beer from my beer fridge in a plastic container under the cabin last February when we left for a couple of months.... no broken bottles or swollen cans. On the contrary, 3 bottles left on the back porch froze and broke.
We have contacted the spray foam guy and he is coming up this fall to spray 4" of foam of the skirting. We are pretty confident that when that is done it will not freeze under there. The newer cabins in our area have solid concrete foundations poured using the 4" foam... ICF, forms, this is left on. Those that have monitored under their cabins report ~40°F all winter regardless of outside temperature.
Hope this helps.
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spencerin
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2021 07:17pm
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Nobadays, how high off the ground is your cabin? I have a similar setup, except it's in a warmer climate but also without much insulation on the underside of the cabin.
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2021 08:22pm
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Roughly 2' north side and 3' south side. We monitored the temperature under the cabin while we were there but I don't know what they were when we were gone. Again though, beer bottles left under the cabin in a plastic tote did not freeze, at least not hard enough to break the bottles.
I would still recommend draining the plumbing if you will be away for any length of time.
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spencerin
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2021 09:19pm
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I'm going to drain. Why take the risk?
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rockies
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2021 11:14pm
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Since you're concerned about freezing I take it you're going to be there during the winter and don't want to drain the system whenever you leave.
Heat tape is a constant drain on a typically off grid electrical system and you'd have to build a chase from below ground to the underside of the cabin anyway to hold the heat against the pipes.
Since your pipes (water from the well, possibly septic) are coming underground to the cabin already the easiest thing to do is to build a utility shed on a concrete pad on the ground right against the side of your cabin and have the pipes come up inside this shed.
You can put a water storage tank in there too, along with any other water purification equipment, and then bring the water into the cabin through the two connecting side walls (the cabin wall and utilty shed wall are touching).
I would add a direct vent propane wall heater set on a thermostat inside the utility shed that will switch on if the temperature inside the shed gets close to freezing. Make sure to insulate the shed walls and roof well.
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