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Riv
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2021 04:16am
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Hi
Is switching to propane worth the effort or should we stick with the electric stove/baseboard.
We currently have an electric stove and I'm wondering if we should go with a propane stove for the camp? It's a 3 season camp we just purchased - about 540 sq ft.
If we go with propane we could eventually also install new heater and small propane fireplace. (our other debate is a wood fireplace or propane fireplace - no current fireplace installed)
thank you.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2021 07:18am
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Why fix what's not broken? You could install a propane heater or fireplace at any time, wood too.
The debate of propane price vs electric price can come up but your alreaty wired for elelectric. I assume it all works? Being that it's a 3 season camp more than likely you will have to buy a propane tank.
Electric may seam a bit expensive but it's only 540sqft.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2021 07:19am
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Why fix what's not broken? You could install a propane heater or fireplace at any time, wood too.
The debate of propane price vs electric price can come up but your alreaty wired for elelectric. I assume it all works? Being that it's a 3 season camp more than likely you will have to buy a propane tank.
Electric may seam a bit expensive but it's only 540sqft.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2021 08:49am
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Oh, the dilemmas of having grid power.
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old greybeard
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2021 12:10pm
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If you like to cook, gas beats electric.
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Ptomaine
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2021 12:34pm
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I wouldn't bother with the range until you get ready to add the gas piping for the heater. Then add the supply line for a propane range. Old greybeard is correct; gas cooking is far superior to electric.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2021 03:25pm
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On grid it seems, you lucky dog!
Wood- love the heat but the safety clearances, the footprint, the firesafe base, inside wood storage, etc. take up considerable space. We are using about 64 sq.ft. of floor space for ours (call it 8'x8').
The vent needs to be class A, straight up; black sgl wall inside is ok, dbl wall better and pipe that penetrates the ceiling, is enclosed or the roof needs to be dbl or tpl wall insulated and a min 2' above the roof peak and likely a roof support, maybe a cricket too.
(that is all the short version, more particulars on each)
Wood Stoves now are highly regulated too. I think I saw something like 60% efficiency for the better ones?
All the above is pretty expensive now.
Then the joy (work) of supporting a couple of chain saws, doing the cutting/splitting, and truck or utv/tractor and trailer or buying wood.
And your insurance co. may not insure with a wood stove for a reason, iirc more 'house' fires are from wood stoves than anything else.
I suggest a direct vented infrared LP furnace.
Check on a tank (own your own you can get filled by anybody, rent one and only they can fill it). Check with the 'fill terms' by the delivery co.
Can they easily get in and have access to the tank (which has reg on placement).
Pipe to run tank to structure, pipe inside, valving for each appliance, etc.; this all takes a plan.
Then ya gotta fill the tank.
Gas cook stove-wow, have they gone up in price since I last bought one!
Run the numbers, the cost of entry may change your mind. My guesstimate is wood or LP from scratch to code will cost about the same (neither inexpensive and forget cheap).
With wood you get there with it dead, hard cold (unless you have it 'idling' along on elec to keep the core temp up) slowly get a fire going, the high eff. wood stove takes a while to get up to temp and start kicking heat out. Once it does (2-3 hrs) it should idle along holding temp and you feed it wood now and then.
With LP you get in, switch it on and it starts kicking out max btu's very shortly. If infrared the heat you feel will be just like the wood stove. No ashes or chimney cleaning and the direct vent takes intake air from outside and kicks the combustion junk and water vapor outside. Too easy; and you get to do other stuff while it just keeps on chuggin out heat (go for a woods walk, etc.) No need to install an expensive class A chimney either. I think these LP units may be about 70% efficient; ie, some of that LP cost is going out the spout, you need to calc your cost per btu at the eff. rate to compare cost effectiveness.
Your current elec is 100% eff., already there. Yeah it costs but after you run those numbers, get some totals and divide by your mo. elec bill (and no new work using what you have now) it might seem more attractive than you think.
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BobW
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2021 03:38pm
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Having heat is not an option at my mountain place in the winter. Pipes would freeze without. Dependability of electric is a factor. My propane heat works without electric power and as long as there is fuel in the tank
and the heater does not malfunction, the place stays above freezing.
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Fanman
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2021 04:50pm
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Our cabin has a propane cooktop, electric oven (a big toaster oven really), freestanding wood fireplace in the living room, coal stove in the bedroom. No other heat, we drain the pipes for the winter. Grid power is very unreliable there.
At the house I'm converting to all propane (again, except for the oven). Heat used to be an oil furnace, now a freestanding direct vent gas fireplace and two direct vent wall heaters, all work without electric. When the power was out for two weeks a couple of years ago after a big winter storm, it sure was nice to have heat! I was plumbing the gas today for the new tankless heater which replaces the electric tank, and the gas range will replace the electric one as part of the kitchen remodel. The tankless heater needs power for its controls, but I need the generator for the well pump anyway.
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Riv
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2021 04:57pm
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wow thank you everyone I really appreciate the dialog so much to think about! Gcrank1 you went above and beyond with your help - much a appreciated.
I'm so happy I joined this network, not sure how I got here but happy I did! Invaluable information from people actually living the dream! Hopefully some day I'll be the one giving the advice! Cheers!
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2021 05:54pm - Edited by: gcrank1
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Riv, welcome aboard, there is a wealth of real world experience here, the btdt, good people with thoughtful responses.
Thinking a little more on your orig. post; ie, a 3-season place (pls, tell is more about it!) with grid I have another idea. I like 'real' heat, that woodstove heat or infrared LP soaks in, feels good anytime ya got a chill.
You have the elec there and on demand, to hold the core or keep you warm, but turned down, overnight.
Maybe put in a non-vented LP infrared wall unit, say the 30,000btu (ours w/o thermostat cost just under $200 USD delivered free to our door from Home Depot just before Christmas) for when you want that 'wood stove feeling' without the work? Way easy install and until freezing temps a pair of BBQ 20# can run fine for quite a few hours here and there. You can exchange them everywhere. The bigger 30 or 40# cylinders would be even better but you need to find a place local that will refill them for you when you bring them in (any of these you can probably handle, the tall 100# can be problematic).
You will need a regulator and line from the tank, some 'black pipe' and a valve from the hardware store, a CO detector for 'safety' and a little work. Use a non-vented sensibly (we have some discussions here already, the biggest issue is have the CO detector and be careful or dont sleep with one on but you have the elec for that).
For your square footage dont use less than the 30,000btu.
Get to your place cold, turn on the elec if it isnt and the wall furnace on high and let both warm it up. Once it warms you choose which you want to turn down to hold the happy temp.
Btw, I didnt want to hear the thing cycle off/on with a 'stat, I set the multi position control where I want to have it hold a temp for the conditions, works for me, you might like a 'stat.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2021 10:21pm
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Kinda forgot about the cook stove/range part.
I grew up with LP, only had an elec range in one place I rented for 10 years. I got used to it but returned to gas when I bought a house. I know what kind of flame I want for cooking, that heating element never seemed 'right' even though it did the job fine.
For you, the little bit of time most likely used for cooking isnt going to impact your energy bill much, not near like room heating. How many times a year are you going to slow cook a brisket in the oven anyway.
Think I could learn to cook with it as is.
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