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cabinbiscuits
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# Posted: 14 Dec 2011 10:26pm
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Hello to everyone. I am newly registered on the site, but like many others, I have been lurking here reading for a while now.
My family and I (well really mostly me) are in the planning stages of our little off the grid building. Our zoning does not allow for cabins, so that is not what we're building.
Right now we're working our way through the permitting and planning process during the winter months, so that we can hopefully start building in the early spring.
Here's a little history of how we got to this point:
God blessed us when we bought our property about 1 3/4 years ago. I had gone through a very tough time at work and my wife agreed with me that if we kept waiting to buy land, our son would be up and out of the house before we ever bought it.
From day one, the biggest issue has always been that we could only get to the top on foot. The property is one side of a mountain, up to the top, and about 2/3 of the way down the back side. There was an old logging trail that went about half way up the front side, but from there you were on foot. Even a utility 4x4 atv couldn't make it up through the woods due to how steep it is. The land is the typical wooded and boulder scattered Pennsylvania type mountain property.
In the summer of 2010 I tried to rent an excavator to extend the logging trail up to the top of the mountain, but I ended up stuck with a raggedy old D6 bulldozer that was not nearly big enough for the task. To make a long story short, not only was I unable to extend my road, but I was lucky I didn't end up killing myself on that old thing.
Fast forward to March of 2011 when I did manage to rent a 40K pound excavator for two weeks. I managed to extend the road about 1200 feet in length, covering about a 250 elevation change. Being able to drive a vehicle to the top of our mountain for the first time was a big accomplishment. Although the road is very steep and will always require a four wheel drive, at least we can drive our camp jeep up there now.
Now that we can get to the top, our next step is to put our little building on top of the mountain where we can take advantage of the nearly constant breeze, lower number of trespassers, and best views.
I look forward to continuing to follow the many posts here, and thanks for all of the information that I've gathered prior to now.
cabinbiscuits
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neb
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# Posted: 14 Dec 2011 10:38pm
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Sounds like you have a great plan. That would be a great from the top. Just think of waking up to that view. Keep us up to date on your dream.
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Just
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# Posted: 14 Dec 2011 10:55pm
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great looking site! best get some cover on all that loose earth or it my be down the mountain come spring !!!!
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 14 Dec 2011 11:10pm
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Wow,I'm always impressed with what determination so many of the members here have!!! Seriously, I thought we had enough obstacles to overcome(ours were jumping through all the DNR and FEMA hoops for our permits), but it is very cool to see so many persevere to make their dreams come true!
Welcome to you and congratulations! I am really looking forward to hearing all about your project and watching your progress. Your land looks absolutely beautiful!
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cabinbiscuits
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# Posted: 31 Dec 2011 10:30pm
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Thanks for the positive comments everyone.
"Just" you are right, I wasn't sure how much errosion I would have but believe it or not, I haven't covered the dirt at all, and with a banner year for rain, the road has held up well. I would like to put some cover on it, but I still have some scraping to do to flatten it out with a skid loader before I put some seed down on it. To be honest with the amount of rocks in the ground, and my driving over it, I'm not sure how well it will grow anyway.
"Trollbridge" thanks for your kind words. I believe in being self reliant and trying to do as many things as I can myself. I had estimates of $10K to put the road in to the top, but with the rental and diesel fuel, I think I did it for right around $3K. Plus I had the awesome experience of spending that time on the land working it myself. It was great.
Still waiting for a zoning permit. The wheels of the government grind very slowly.....
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oldbuddy
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# Posted: 1 Jan 2012 12:15am
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Your situation sounds very similar to ours. We are off the hard-top road 4/10 of a mile BUT we go up nearly 600 feet in elevation within that 4/10 miles. In the summer (between May and usually mid-November), we can drive it with my 4X4 Silverado, but only if it hasn't rained for the last 2-3 days. Otherwise...forget it. That's why I made the decision in October or very early November, to purchase a four-wheeler. I decided to buy a Honda Foreman because all I wanted to do was use it to pull heavy loads up that steep hill. I'm not selling for Honda....I'm sure that a similar Suzuki, Kawasaki, Polaris would be just as good but I have had several Honda's with little problems....and the dealer is about 1/4 mile from me!
Anyway.....that machine made our seven month cabin a year round cabin and I am soooo happy with it. I had some friends/relatives try to sell me on a side-by-side but I listened to my son because of his four-wheeler experience and he told me that most side-by-sides are too slow and heavy to make some of the grades on our property (especially pulling a load). Our road has about three springs running right down the middle of it after 2-3 days of rain. In fact, we have to keep at least 200 pound of weight on the front end to make sure the front axle is pulling. One of my earlier posts spoke about going up the hill with a GVW of right at 2000 pounds. That was in second gear all the way. I'm sure it would have done it in first gear but it would have been very slow and the revs would have been high for quite some time. I was very proud of 2000# in the mud!
Most of our build time came in August this year. We had already set all the posts last winter but.....couldn't get back up the hill after December. Happy 2012 (I hear all the fireworks going of as I'm typing this). The problem with our roads are that they were cut in by a dozer and in many places turn to a 2-3 inch ooze in winter. Some parts of the road are rock base and they hold up well year
round. Nice chattin with ya! Old Old Buddy
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cabinbiscuits
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# Posted: 7 Apr 2012 04:52pm
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Well today looks like a good day to start building. Keeping it short because I'm posting from my phone. Will get some pics up soon.
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neb
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# Posted: 7 Apr 2012 09:15pm
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awesome
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 7 Apr 2012 11:31pm
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Wow, congrats on getting started!!! Feels good huh?
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Nirky
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# Posted: 8 Apr 2012 12:18am
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Looks like a beautiful area with a lot of challenges. Have you determined if a standard gravity septic system will be enough or will you need to install an engineered sand mound system?
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cabinbiscuits
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# Posted: 16 Apr 2012 09:46pm
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Well I did get started on my building, and like any project some things went as expected and some did not.
On of the things that did not go a planned was boring the holes for the piers. I rented an auger attachment for my skid loader and planned on using that to bore the 14 holes for the building and deck. I got an 18" bit for the auger and if things had gone well I would have ended up with 14 nice 18" diameter round holes. Instead, due the large amount of rock in the ground, the first hole ended up being about 36" in diameter by the time that I hit the four foot depth mark that I was shooting for. The second hole, well that didn't go nearly so well. By the time I quit the second hole was about 5' in diameter, and only about 2' deep. Needless to say the auger wasn't going to work, and renting it was a waste of time and money.
Next I moved on to renting a mini-excavator. The excavator was the ticket, as I was able to dig up the rocks that the auger would not handle. The use of the excavator required digging two trenches for the 10 piers that will support my building, instead of individual holes though, since the holes needed to be so close to one another that they ended up connecting to one another and a trench was the best way to go. Since we no longer had nice round 18" holes to use to form up our concrete, I ended up having to build and set 14 concrete forms ( 5 each in two trenches, and 1 each in four holes).
Next came having to haul 42 eighty pound bags of of concrete along with water to the top of the mountain and then mix them. I invested in an electric concrete mixer from Lowes, and man what a blessing that thing was to have. Not only did it save the back breaking work of mixing all that concrete, but it was much faster as well.
Anyway my step-dad and I got the concrete poured and today 4-16-2012 I got the four corner piers set and backfilled.
Next up is setting and backfilling the remaining 6 building piers, and then the 4 deck piers.
Even though the excavator worked to dig down for the footers, we still needed to dodge some underground boulders which is why the footers aren't in nice straight lines the way I would have preferred them to be.
We also had to use some inventive ways to get materials to the top of the mountain.
Trollbridge- If you had asked me how it felt last Saturday when the auger wasn't working at all, I would have said horrible. But with this week in the bag, and the progress that I made over the past week, yes it does feel good.
Nirky- I'm not doing either type of septic, this is an off the grid building with no running water.
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 17 Apr 2012 10:22am - Edited by: trollbridge
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Cabinbiscuits......you just got one of your first lessons we all eventually learn------things don't always go as well as planned and therefore there will always be setbacks and flexibility and not allowing yourself to get completely frustrated and overwhelmed are going to be two key factors in getting through your project without having a complete mental breakdown......the kind that gets you sent to the loony bin!!!! Must stay as far away from there as possible!!!! LOL!
It's kinda unfortunate that in order to get started pretty much one of the first jobs is to dig for piers. It causes many of us plenty of frustration!!! It is also hard labor- intensive work even with the help of heavy equipment!!! Would be nice if one could start out with some easy stuff in order to build the confidence reserves a little before getting slapped in the face wouldn't it???! Ha!
Keep plugging away though and you will be finished with this first step and onto the next part which will be easy in comparison. When we did our piers my husband,oldest son and a good friend of ours went up for the day to get it done. They had the skid steer in tow with the 18" auger attachment.....not many rocks in our fairly sandy soil luckily but the very first hole they dug when they got down 4 feet it started to fill in with water----my husband called me in a panic to ask me to read online what to do----well guess how that went???Anyways....they carried on able to get the holes all dug with out further problems luckily. Then ALL those many bags of concrete had to be mixed in the manual mixer----They were exhausted by the time they got home and in fact in all the times we have come home completely spent that was by far the most absolutely exhausted I have ever seen anyone get!!! I had a big fried chicken dinner fixed and waiting for them all and I tell you the three could barely hold their weary heads up long enough to even eat. So, I feel for you. I really do and I am glad that you are almost done with that part.
I will be excited to watch your progress and hear about your future adventures! Remember to keep taking lots of pictures along the way!!! Chin up!!!
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cabinbiscuits
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# Posted: 21 Apr 2012 07:08pm
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Well my step-father and I went back up to camp and finished getting the piers for the building and porch in the ground. We also got almost all of the backfilling done and some additional site work done around the building as well.
Trollbridge- Thanks for the encouragement, it feels great to have that dirty part of the job done.
Here's some pics from the most recent trip up.
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Nirky
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2012 01:44am
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No septic necessary, that's a big advantage for you. In my jurisdiction anything over 120 sq feet built as a dwelling needs both building permit & septic approval. Anything not built in compliance and complained of by a disgruntled "neighbor" would be subject to citation and/or demolition.
It looks like a beautiful plot, please keep the pictures coming.
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cabinbiscuits
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# Posted: 23 Apr 2012 10:26am
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I had been hoping to get back up to camp this week while I have a few more days off of work in order to get the ten piers that will support the building cut off to the correct height, and then get the girders notched and bolted into the tops of the piers. It rained yesterday and today, and there is a chance of mixed rain and snow up there overnight tonight, so it looks like I'll have to wait on that step.
The nice thing about the rain though is that it will help to percolate dirt down in between all the rock and tighten the piers up in the ground even more.
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 24 Apr 2012 10:26am
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Your thread is going to be such a fun one to watch...I love the picture of your post strapped to the skid steer!!! And all the rocks that gave you problems...sometime in your "spare moments" HA HA...collect the larger flatter pieces and you will be able to use them for stoops, walkways or a patio or retaining wall or raised garden or flower beds or...............okay enough already- but seriously you do have an abundance of a pretty handy resource right there so next time you want to curse the stuff instead think of all the handy uses it could have!
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cabinbiscuits
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2012 08:43am
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Trollbridge- I'm with you on the use of the all the rock that we have available. I used many of the big ones to build a retaining wall in front of the building where the road comes up the mountain in front of it. I've said many times if I only had a rock crusher I could stone my entire road for free and that would be awesome.
Yes getting the 20' long 2x10's and 16' long 6x6's up on the skid steer was an adventure. It takes so long to get to the top I like to try to maximize each trip up and down.
Thanks for watching the progress. Today I'm up at camp again and plan on cutting the 10 piers to support the building off to the correct height and bolting the girders into the piers in their final positions.
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2012 10:50am
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You must not have gotten the 2' of snow I heard about. Good luck today!
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cabinbiscuits
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# Posted: 26 Apr 2012 07:43pm - Edited by: cabinbiscuits
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Well we had a good work day and I got all of the piers cut to the right height, and the girders bolted on. We also added some additional bracing to the four 16' 6x6's that will support the porch and porch roof at some point in the distant future. I'm hoping that the braces will help with stopping additional warping of the long timbers.
Trollbridge- Actually we didn't get any snow up our way, that was further west in PA, although there must have been quite a bit of rain. I had to winch my pickup truck up through the last turn on the trail to make it up to the top of the mountain to the building site. The trail was just too muddy to drive up through the last turn. I included a pic of my "Rock Retaining Wall" that I made using some of the rocks from the top section of road, and building site.
After finishing up the foundation I did some more site work with the skid loader. One thing I love about our camp is that when you think that you have the last rock or boulder out of the way and you can put the bucket down to flatten things out, you find out that there are another three or four that you didn't know were there. I swear if rocks were gold, I'd be the richest guy on earth.
One down note about the day was that the transmission in our camp Jeep finally let go so now I have to trailer that home and put a transmission and transfer case in it. The transfer case was on its' last leg as well, so I'll do both at the same time.
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Bevis
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# Posted: 27 Apr 2012 09:21pm
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Nice Cabin build so far, keep the pics a comin'. Sucks that the Jeep crapped out on ya. Now if only Trollbridge  would calm down and let teh rest of us get a word in. 
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 28 Apr 2012 11:56am
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LOL Bevis!!!!
You know what you need???? You need to start your cabin! Is your wife still talking about it??? Maybe at Olive Garden tonight you could get her tipsy off wine and then when you go to Lowes you can place an order for all the lumber you'll need!!!! Sound like a plan?
Cbiscuit...Bevis had a cabin that was burned down by a bunch of goons who had broke in and made meth. Unlucky indeed. He needs a new place!
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cabinbiscuits
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# Posted: 28 Apr 2012 08:26pm - Edited by: cabinbiscuits
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Bevis- I'm so sorry for you. I remember reading your story now. I can't imagine how angry that must have made you. I found out the other day that some jackass shot up the deer blind that my son and I built last fall. We used the blind for deer season so it had to have happened over the winter months. They shot the lock hasp on the door so it was no accident.
I told my wife if they keep it up I'm going to be up there patrolling with my AK 47 and we'll have to have a nice chat.
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Bevis
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# Posted: 29 Apr 2012 10:45am
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Yes, I hate dirtbags who destroy others property. TB she did buy a cabin / shed book though.
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2012 04:02pm
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Awesome Bevis...keep her interested any way possible! lol!
cbisquits...I hope you have no more problems with unwanted visitors there to do no good....yes that nice chat would do the trick I think!
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 11 Jun 2012 11:02pm
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Any updates???
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cabinbiscuits
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# Posted: 13 Jun 2012 11:43am
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trollbridge it's funny that you ask.
I have been pretty busy lately and haven't been on this forum much, but I just happened to check it today and saw your question. I guess I forgot to subscribe to my own thread. Thanks for your interest in the project.
Anyway in the time since my last post I have put a replacement used transmission and transfer case in the Jeep. Since I had to trailer the Jeep home for that work, I am also doing some other stuff to it that I wanted to do to make it more useful at camp. I am adding 8" steel bumpers with 2" receivers for my winch to the front and back. I am also adding shackle mounts to the front and rear bumpers for additional pulling power when using a snatch block. I am also building a rack over top of the entire vehicle to make carrying long lumber to the top of the mountain faster than the skid loader can do. The rack will also double as an elevated work platform for working on the outside of the building when the time comes. Heck it might even be a good place to hunt from.
Right now the family and I are on vacation at the beach (part of keeping my promise to my wife that I won't spend my entire summer working on the building). After we return from the beach I have to finish the rack portion of the Jeep work, then paint it.
We will be bringing home our new German Shepherd puppy at the end of this month. The pup is going to be my camp buddy, and I plan on taking him up there with me as much as possible. I guess I will also have to post Beware of Dog signs next to my No Trespassing signs to protect myself just in case he ends up chasing down and biting some trespassers on motorcycles some day. My son is 17 now and in addition to school, he works two part time jobs so he doesn't go up with me very much anymore unfortunately.
As for the building itself I plan on getting started with the floor framing next, hopefully in July some time.
Thanks again for your interest.
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 13 Jun 2012 03:36pm
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You are doing a lot of work on your jeep....tons of people on this forum have jeeps too so you will have to post pics! Good thinking to make the rack and be able to also use it as a work platform!
Your puppy will love going to the cabin to help you work! I know what you mean about your son with school and work...kinda depressing isn't it? Hope you have great weather for your family vacation at the beach-enjoy the downtime while you can!
Thanks for updating...it is always fun to watch the progress of others I think
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cabinbiscuits
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# Posted: 24 Aug 2012 09:27pm
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Time for an update. We got the Jeep back up to camp and managed to get the flooring materials to the top of the mountain.
We got the floor framed, insulated and sheathed on the top and bottom. Unfortunately on the weekend that we were doing the floor a rock hit the bottom of my radiator and broke the plastic pipe connection off of the bottom of the radiator. We ended up having to swap the radiator out up on top of the mountain. What poor set up for a heavy duty pickup with an "Off Road" package.
Anyway in the time since we got the floor done, we got the first floor walls framed and the Smart Side panels up as well. We had to erect a temporary plastic roof to try to protect the plywood on the first floor.
Now I'm starting to work on making the roof trusses for the gambrel roof. I want to build the trusses in halves at home, then when I get them to the top of the mountain, finish assembling them before setting them.
On a down note someone stole the ladder for our deer stand that we had constructed out of 2x4's last fall. I suspect they didn't take it too far away due to its' weight and length, but for now with all the foliage, I haven't been able to locate it.
Here's some pics of our most recent progress---
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